truelgbt wrote:The control freak aspect of mass murderers is most likely correct so I agree with you. However, the point of the OP in my opinion, was to point out that most genocidal dictators of the 20th century made self declarations and identified as atheists, as you can see from the quotes which are most likely legit since they are commonly quoted and almost never disputed.

And what we've all been at great pains to point out to you is that what they believed about the existence of magical fuckwits has exactly no bearing on their actions.

truelgbt wrote:The list given by the OP is a Who's Who of the vast majority of genocidal maniacs of the 20th Century. In addition, they did not do most of the killing themselves since one dictator can't do all of them. So they must have had a multitude of followers of like mindedness who did the killing.

Remember how I said they were religious?

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

That they eschewed traditional magical beliefs in favour of different magical beliefs is not a coincidence. That belief in deities was often incompatible with their ideologies is commentary on their ideologies, not on the shedding of preposterous magical beliefs.

Do you believe in such coincidence?

Coincidence is dependent on your frame of reference. get thee to a physicist, stat.

I assume if they were all Christian or Muslim, you might be the first to point that fact out, but now the shoe is on your foot so its a 'coincidence' and nothing more?

Just goes to show what happens when you erect fuckwitted assumptions. The only time I'd ever point out the religion of a genocidal lunatic is when that genocide was specifically a function of their religious beliefs. That's what it means to have a causal relationship. Atheism and genocide have no causal relationship. The tenets of Christianity and Islam do, along with many other toxic notions. it could hardly be otherwise, given that genocide was commanded by their imaginary friend (at least in their tiny little minds).

What’s interesting is that the genocide of those maniacs ended with great effort from a lot of nations.

Somehow, as the most recent events in Kamloops Canada demonstrate, religion still gets a pass.


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I assume that's a reference to the residential schools shitshow I've heard rumours of?

Given my past and my family's history with the catlicker hierarchy, I've studiously avoided it, hence my not simply googling for the answer.

George Bush Junior and Tony Blair were/are both heavy Christians and are responsible for the bloodiest and most heinous act of war in recent decades: the decimation of Iraq. They also explicitly cited "God" as being instructive in their deciding to wage bloody war, unlike the aforementioned alleged atheists in this thread, who did not cite their lack of belief in deities as being an influence in their deeds. 2c

hackenslash wrote:Atheism and genocide have no causal relationship. The tenets of Christianity and Islam do, along with many other toxic notions. it could hardly be otherwise, given that genocide was commanded by their imaginary friend (at least in their tiny little minds).

The OP showed the well-known admissions of belief in atheism on the part of 10 dictators of the 20th century. Ten. That is no small number (Hitler was listed by the OP in a later post as being an evolutionist, which he definitely was).

Who can we add to that 20th century list of dictators? Nobody. They're all there.

If you can name more dictators in the 20th century who were not atheist, please list them here.

While you're at it, please list here all the Christian dictators of the 20th century.

Here you go: the perfect thread for you to expose your bigotry and rehearse your prejudice in public!

truelgbt wrote:
If you can name more dictators in the 20th century who were not atheist, please list them here.

While you're at it, please list here all the Christian dictators of the 20th century.

How about YOU start by READING THE THREAD?

You know, rather than clearly NOT reading the thread and expecting people to jump through some hoops for you?

hackenslash wrote:I assume that's a reference to the residential schools shitshow I've heard rumours of?

Yep, that’s it. Heinous psychopaths.


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Oh, goodie. A fight you picked. Everything that follows is on you.

truelgbt wrote:The OP showed the well-known admissions of belief in atheism on the part of 10 dictators of the 20th century.

There's no such thing as a belief in atheism, genius. The word is a privative. More importantly, correlation is NOT causation. I can't believe you've been a member on the forum for more than five fucking minutes and not learned this basic principle of logic. It has, in fact, been pointed out in this thread, albeit by corollary in the form 'they were all men, too. Therefore all men are genocidal lunatics.

It's easy to show correlation. I can show a crsytal clear correlation between global temperature and piracy.

Here's the thing: All paederast priests are Christians, so clearly Christians are all paederasts, right?

Ten. That is no small number

Bzzzzzzzzzzz. Thank you for playing.

You clearly don't have the first fucking clue of how statistics works (quelle surprise; you don't appear to have much of a clue how anything works).

From a statistical perspective, ten is a minuscule number - literally insignificant- and the relationship you're attempting to draw is a statistical one. If you're watching the sea lapping up on the beach, ten waves won't even tell you whether the tide is coming or going out or, indeed, staying where it is. You need a much larger sampling, such as, oh, I don't know, the number of catlickers priests who go around diddling little boys. Clearly there's a much stronger correlation between being a Christian and being a paederast than there is between being an atheist and being a genocide. You agree, right?

(Hitler was listed by the OP in a later post as being an evolutionist, which he definitely was).

No, he wasn't. he didn't have the first fucking clue about evolution.

Who can we add to that 20th century list of dictators? Nobody. They're all there.

Seriously? You're going to discount the role the church played in the Rwandan genocide? How about the AIDS genocide, which the church wasn't merely complicit in, but was actually the committer of? OK, so maybe the term' genocide' doesn't really apply, but that's only because there wasn't an explicit targeting of an ethnic group for eradication. Genocide isn't the only word that applies to killing large number of people, but the church is absolutely unmatched in this regard. I shudder to think what the result would have been had Moses had access to serious weaponry.

If you can name more dictators in the 20th century who were not atheist, please list them here.

Why would I need to? You haven't started to make a case yet. meanwhile, dictators aren't the only ones who kill people. The church has no competition in that in scope and numbers. Christians have been responsible for more deaths than even the most diligent of genocides can't get close to, and all of those deaths are directly stemming from the religion and its tenets, which isn't just correlation, it's causation, something you haven't gotten close to.

Meanwhile, there are all those paederast priests, so all Christians are paederasts, right? In fact, were I being as obnoxious as you think I am, I could quite easily point out that paederasty is not only justified in the bible, it's actually commanded by the magic fuckwit himself, so we don't just have a correlation, we have a fucking mandate from your cosmic curtain-twitcher.

I'm sorry if you don't like this conclusion, but it's your reasoning I'm using. You have ten, while I've absolutely lost count before I've even begun to do the math (I'm not that good at math, to be fair, but I don't have to be to defeat your absolute incompetence in the topic).

While you're at it, please list here all the Christian dictators of the 20th century.

Christianity IS dictatorship, and it's caused the deaths of, well, we frankly can't even put a number on it. Every slave killed prior to the emancipation is quite rightly laid at Christianity's door. All the deaths of reproductive healthcare providers in the US. All the lynchings in the South (what, you think the crosses are coincidence?)

Honestly, I haven't even scratched the surface of the despicable history of Christianity and the deaths it's been involved in, either by complicity, by mandate or directly. No 20th century dictator can even come close to the deaths directly attributable to Christianity throughout history. And don't even get me started on how many deaths can be attributed to the interference in secular law of Christian ideology. Every death suffered because of abortion laws, for example, is on your lot. Complicity in the Rwandan genocide, not to mention the Church's role in the AIDS epidemic in Africa, the killing of witches (and I mean modern killings, not just the thing that nobody expects).

Honestly, if you want to play this fucking game, you're only adding to the list of games you're entirely without competence to engage in, and you're going to lose it badly.

Note: I don't actually think that paederasty or paedophilia are significantly more prevalent in the priesthood than in society at large; it's endemic to society, and considerably more common than anybody wants to admit. Indeed, we even had a member here, an atheist, and one of my favourite contributors, and one of the very few people who ever uttered a word on the forum about consciousness worth paying attention to, who ended up being convicted of distributing child porn. It is, however, undeniable that the repressive taboos foisted on us by the church have played a major role in keeping it prevalent, and there's no doubt that the priesthood has a slightly bigger problem with it, again because of those oppressive taboos.

Keep It Real wrote:George Bush Junior and Tony Blair were/are both heavy Christians and are responsible for the bloodiest and most heinous act of war in recent decades: the decimation of Iraq. They also explicitly cited "God" as being instructive in their deciding to wage bloody war, unlike the aforementioned alleged atheists in this thread, who did not cite their lack of belief in deities as being an influence in their deeds. 2c

Oh, but the nasty atheists...

Nicely done, and absolutely correct.

felltoearth wrote:Yep, that’s it. Heinous psychopaths.

yeah, I've been studiously avoiding it. My other half started to tell me about it the other day.

One that isn't mentioned here is the colonisation, and consequential genocides, and special treatment allowed to colonials and settlers who were excused from being prosecuted for crimes against the people of Africa, for 500 years.

In every case, every single colony, every single crime committed against the indigenous people of Africa, was committed by people who followed one of the three major religions, of recent history. The repatriation and conquering of Africa in earlier times wasn't done in the name of Baal, or Jupiter, or Zeus, or any other of the gods that preceded the murderous god of the Old Testament, it was done in the name of conquering land that was the source of food for the conquering nations, thus not in the name of religion.

It took the belief in the god who they claim caused the mass slaughter of the world's entire population except for one incestuous family, that caused the massive problems that beset Africa today. When Africa was being colonised at the same time as the United States was, it was god-botherers who stole the youth of Africa to create wealth in the Americas, a land populated by the most bigoted Christians in colonising history. For the next five centuries the continent was overrun with people greedy for the resources they plundered in the name of bring "God" to people they saw as undeveloped and primitive, "they hadn't even invented the wheel yet", while Africa was a continent of thriving cities that had been trading with the east for centuries without forcing their gods, and their ancestor worship on their neighbours. They too, in conquering their own enemies, never did it in the name of gods, or atheism but purely for the same reasons their own conquerors and colonists did: arable land for their flocks and herds, and generally just men wanting to kill other men because they gave them a funny look or whatever the hell men fight about.

It's taken atheism to undo the actions of colonialism. None of the now-developing nations have national religions, except perhaps Zimbabwe late president who was a catholic and who committed genocide of massive proportions, to feed his wife's ever-increasing need for bling. I don't know whether the current people who are running Zimbabwe and inviting farmers to return to help rebuild Mugabe's damage, are religious, but they're not being driven by religion but by a need to rebuild and make Africa's countries part of the global community. There certainly isn't any enforced religion here, we're allowed to believe or not, according to our own choice.

Leopold II anyone? Responsible for the annihilation of ten million Congolese (Not to mention the practice of chopping their hands off if they didn't meet their rubber quotas). Religion... (Alexa, drum roll please) Christian!!

BlackBart wrote:Leopold II anyone? Responsible for the annihilation of ten million Congolese (Not to mention the practice of chopping their hands off if they didn't meet their rubber quotas). Religion... (Alexa, drum roll please) Christian!!

I had totally forgotten.

Here you go, truelgbt, a Christian dictator from the 20th century. Leopold was the man for whom the phrase 'crimes against humanity' was coined.

Your thesis is falsified in spades.

Meanwhile, about those paederasts...

General Franco...Christian.
Radovan Karadzic...Christian.

Osama bin Laden - Mormon

OK< that was funny.

Here are some more theists doing what theists do best:

I see the "atheist genocide" bullshit has been resurrected.

It's time for this:

One. Atheism, in its rigorous formulation, is nothing more than suspicion of unsupported supernaturalist assertions. That is IT. And as such, provides no motivation to do anything other than question those assertions.

On the other hand, we have a wealth of observational data informing us how religions are cited by their adherents as strong motivation to kill those who do not conform. Inquisition and the Crusades, anyone?

For those who need explicit pointers to the supernaturalist origin of that venomous contribution to human affairs, known as "ruthless enforcement of conformity to doctrine", see Exodus 23:24, Deuteronomy 7:5, Deuteronomy 13: 6-10, Deuteronomy 13: 12-15,Deuteronomy 17:2-5, 2 Chronicles 15:13 and Jeremiah 12: 1-3. These are the passages which provided us with the dictum "kill all who do not conform".

Two. The individuals frequently cited as purportedly "killing in the name of atheism" by pedlars of this bullshit well-poisoning meme, perpetrated their horrors for two reasons - first, pursuit of the objectives of a well-defined political ideology, and second, consolidation of personal power. Atheism had nothing to do with this.

Three. Those same individuals, when their backgrounds are properly researched, are found to have connections with supernaturalist belief. Pol Pot was raised in a Theravada Buddhist household, and spent part of his education in a Catholic high school. Mao had a Confucian education and Buddhist parents, only encountering Marxist theory at the relatively late age of 24. Stalin was educated in an Orthodox seminary. Hitler was a Catholic, who never renounced his Catholicism, and indeed, devoted space in "Mein Kampf" to praising the Catholic Church and its modus operandi.

For that matter, "Mein Kampf" is positively *littered* with references to "the Creator", "the Almighty" and the rest of it. Interestingly, for the diligent student of such polemics, this work also contains within its pages a view of biology that, far from having any connection with evolution, is in fact an almost perfect rendering of the creationist "kinds" nonsense. See pages 245-246 of the Unexpurgated Version, translated by James Murphy. Which, incidentally, renders this piece of bullshit:

truelgbt wrote:Hitler was listed by the OP in a later post as being an evolutionist, which he definitely was.

utterly null and void. To reinforce this point, here's the requisite passage I cited above from Mein Kampf:

Even a superficial glance is sufficient to show that all the innumerable forms in which the life-urge of Nature manifests itself are subject to a fundamental law - one may call it an iron law of Nature - which compels the various species to keep within the definite limits of their own life-forms when propagating and multiplying their kind. Each animal mates only with one of its own species. The titmouse cohabits only with the titmouse, the finch with the finch, the stork with the stork, the field-mouse with the field-mouse, the house-mouse with the house-mouse, the wolf with the she-wolf, etc.

Deviations from this law take place only in exceptional circumstances. This happens especially under the compulsion of captivity, or when some other obstacle makes procreative intercourse impossible between individuals of the same species. But then Nature abhors such intercourse with all her might; and her protest is most clearly demonstrated by the fact that the hybrid is either sterile or the fecundity of its descendants is limited. In most cases hybrids and their progeny are denied the ordinary powers of resistance to disease or the natural means of defence against outer attack.

There's enough biological ignorance in this screed to destroy utterly the myth that Hitler was an "evolutionist" (and veterans of the forum will be well aware that I've dealt with the "evolutioninst" canard at length here).

Four. As for the question of the body counts, an inconvenient fact that supernaturalists frequently (and deliberately) overlook, is that modern perpetrators of atrocities had access to modern weapons for the task. Anyone who thinks, for example, that the Crusaders or Inquisitors such as Tomas de Torquemada, would not have racked up a far bigger body count if they had been given access to 20th century weapons, needs to re-take their basic history classes.

If we look at the body counts they racked up with nothing more sophisticated than swords or bows and arrows to hand, then imagine how more horrific those body counts would have been, if they had been given access to modern artillery or helicopter gunships.

For that matter, if the Crusaders has been given access to nuclear weapons, they would have turned the entire Middle East into radioactive lava in the name of their god without even drawing breath. Tomas de Torquemada would have been creaming himself in ecstasy at the though of committing the "heretics" to modern concentration camps, and would have embraced Zyklon B in a flash.

Five. One embarrassing aspect of the use of this well-poisoning bullshit by smug, self-satisfied supernaturalists, is that none of them are aware of the fact that whilst these individuals were responsible for nameless horrors, one atrocity they did NOT commit was systematic child rape - unlike a good few Catholic priests and "megachurch pastors" we've learned about of late. I have a nice little list of said criminals that I can reproduce here in a flash, if anyone doubts the veracity of my statement.

So, can we put the "atheist genocide" bullshit and lies in the bin where it belongs, and set fire to it as well?