Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

Why were many of history's most brutal regimes authored by atheists?

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#921  Postby Hermit » Jul 17, 2021 12:40 pm

truelgbt wrote:So why did those atheist dictators who gathered other like-minded atheists to support those atheist regimes, murder those hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century?

Where was their atheist conscience in all this?

Where did their keen atheist ability to determine right from wrong disappear to?

Not this canard again. Yes, atheist dictators have committed mass murders in the 20th century. So have theist dictators. Dictators are psychopaths regardless of whether they subscribe to a religion, or not.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#922  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 17, 2021 12:49 pm

Ahh but the atheist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators are worse than the theist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators because scripture doesn't justify their maniacal psychopathic murder!
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#923  Postby Hermit » Jul 17, 2021 2:14 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Ahh but the atheist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators are worse than the theist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators because scripture doesn't justify their maniacal psychopathic murder!

Actually, not only does scripture justify maniacal psychopathic murder, it explicitly commands it.

Deuteronomy 7:2
And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them


Deuteronomy 20:16-18
But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee

That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#924  Postby hackenslash » Jul 17, 2021 2:22 pm

With the added kidnapping of little girls as sex slaves. Numbers 31:18
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#925  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 17, 2021 3:36 pm

Hermit wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:Ahh but the atheist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators are worse than the theist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators because scripture doesn't justify their maniacal psychopathic murder!


Actually, not only does scripture justify maniacal psychopathic murder, it explicitly commands it.


I'm not sure whether it's my sentence construction which needs some massaging here, but that's what I said: atheists DON'T have scriptural justification for maniacal psychopathic murder, which makes them worse than theists who DO have scriptural justification.


Edit, yeah, I could've used a relative clause, or just reinserted the key noun...

Ahh but the atheist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators are worse than the theist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators because scripture doesn't justify atheist maniacal psychopathic murder!
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#926  Postby surreptitious57 » Jul 17, 2021 4:21 pm

truelgbt wrote:
So why did those atheist dictators who gathered other like minded atheists to support those
atheist regimes murder those hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century ?

Where was their atheist conscience in all this ?

Where did their keen atheist ability to determine right from wrong disappear to ?

Remove the bolded terms and the post is just as relevant as psychopathy is the common trait of dictators not their atheism
And psychopaths who commit genocide do not have consciences so cannot differentiate between right and wrong anyway
And consciences are not atheist either given that atheism is not a moral or ethical philosophy as it is amoral by definition
Even if every dictator in history was an atheist that would be merely incidental to their psychopathy
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#927  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 17, 2021 6:12 pm

I must interject that psychopathy is not a prerequisite for committing genocide. There's a saying about omelettes and eggs which illustrates that, I leave the reader to fill in the blanks. How are you doing sur? Buried any more furniture recently?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#928  Postby hackenslash » Jul 17, 2021 6:28 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I must interject that psychopathy is not a prerequisite for committing genocide.


Yo can interject with whatever you like. We all know how that's gone in the past.

There's a saying about omelettes and eggs which illustrates that, I leave the reader to fill in the blanks.


I know many sayings about omelettes and eggs, but none that relate to the psychobabble you extracted from your arse above.

How are you doing sur? Buried any more furniture recently?


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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#929  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 17, 2021 6:33 pm

Your avatar seems pissed off Hack...had a bad day? I tend to "count my blessings" - you know, living in filthy rich England and all that...hope that helps :)
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#930  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 17, 2021 6:43 pm

hackenslash wrote:*snip*


Ignore it and it will go away.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#931  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 17, 2021 6:53 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
hackenslash wrote:*snip*


Ignore it and it will go away.


It doesn't work that way, you need to dig a large hole in the back garden and then insert the furniture. Either that or pay the council to take it away...fuck that! :lol:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#932  Postby surreptitious57 » Jul 18, 2021 1:39 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
I must interject that psychopathy is not a prerequisite for committing genocide

I cannot see how a non psychopath could commit genocide
One of the traits of psychopathy is zero empathy which is why psychopaths can commit such immoral acts
One would at the very least need to have very low levels of empathy that would not impact upon ones conscience
I suppose a non psychopath could have psychopathic tendencies but usually they are kept in check and not enacted

I know that you are far more knowledgeable than I on all matters psychological given your mothers background so you could
be right but I just think that truly immoral acts can only be committed by those who have no significant degree of empathy
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#933  Postby hackenslash » Jul 18, 2021 2:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:I cannot see how a non psychopath could commit genocide


Greed, ideology...

This is what Weinberg was talking about when talking about getting good people to do bad things. Weinberg was wrong, of course, but only in a quite subtle way, namely that religion is only a subset f the real enemy, the real enemy being doctrinal imperatives and the blind adherence thereto. Psychopaths have no discernible conscience. Ideologues have programmed (or had programmed) their conscience with a set of values that differ from what we'd deem the 'norm'.

In reality, there's no difference in mindset between a genocide and a suicide bomber. They're mostly driven by what they'd deemed rational, moral reasons. They don't lack morality or empathy, they have different ideas about what their empathy motivates them to. Id' bet that the Venn diagram between psychopaths and genocides is actually very small in terms of intersection.

Remember, conscience reflects your social mores, not anything objective. It's trivial to change somebody's ethos by psycholinguistic programming. Two minutes on twitter will provide you with voluminous evidence of that.

One of the traits of psychopathy is zero empathy which is why psychopaths can commit such immoral acts


That tells you that psychopathy is sufficient, but it doesn't say anything about necessity.

ETA: I'd forgotten to talk about greed, but then realised I didn't need to because, in some circles greed is a moral obligation. Selfishness is desirable. See Ayn Rand for more.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#934  Postby BlackBart » Jul 18, 2021 4:20 pm

ISTR A study that said that psychopaths - admittedly that's a broad definition - may feel remorse, guilt and empathy, they're just 'better' at compartmentalising and use coping strategies.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#935  Postby surreptitious57 » Jul 18, 2021 4:46 pm

I agree that the real enemy is blind adherence to doctrinal imperatives rather than religion
Once you have an ideology that cannot be questioned then anything can be justified by it regardless of what the ideology is

Greed can however be justified from a non ideological perspective such as providing for ones family over total strangers
We are not hard wired for universal altruism so some discrimination / favouritism is therefore inevitable
This is not a moral problem as such as long as one is not intentionally harming others as a consequence


With regard to psychopaths feeling remorse I know of only one major serial killer who ever publicly did
All the others that I know of were indifferent or unapologetic for their crimes which is what one would expect of them
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#936  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 18, 2021 4:54 pm

hackenslash wrote:Greed, ideology...


And ignorance, to finish out the list.

To paraphrase Voltaire - those who can be made to believe absurdities, can be made to commit atrocities - even absent the wider structure of an ideology.

Mix them altogether, and I'm not sure there's anything which some humans wouldn't gleefully do.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#937  Postby hackenslash » Jul 18, 2021 5:02 pm

Knew I'd forgotten something... lol
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#938  Postby BlackBart » Jul 18, 2021 5:13 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:

With regard to psychopaths feeling remorse I know of only one major serial killer who ever publicly did
All the others that I know of were indifferent or unapologetic for their crimes which is what one would expect of them


Not all serial killers are psychopaths and not all psychopaths are serial killers.
Because one does not publicly display an emotion doesn't mean one doesn't experience it.
And what one 'expects' isn't necessarily a useful metric.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#939  Postby Calilasseia » Jul 23, 2021 7:19 am

truelgbt wrote:So why did those atheist dictators who gathered other like-minded atheists to support those atheist regimes, murder those hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century?

Where was their atheist conscience in all this?

Where did their keen atheist ability to determine right from wrong disappear to?


That you resurrected the requisite canards, after I subjected them to the requisite and well-deserved discoursive carpet bombing two pages previously (see here if you missed said Arclight episode the first time), speaks volumes.

I'll point you to the apposite part of the aforementioned that you manifestly never read:

Two. The individuals frequently cited as purportedly "killing in the name of atheism" by pedlars of this bullshit well-poisoning meme, perpetrated their horrors for two reasons - first, pursuit of the objectives of a well-defined political ideology, and second, consolidation of personal power. Atheism had nothing to do with this.


If you're either too indolent to read apposite contributions here that destroy the requisite canards, or too duplicitous to accept the requisite facts, then there are two words applicable here - one beginning with "f" and one ending with "f".
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#940  Postby Agrippina » Jul 23, 2021 5:27 pm

Also I'd like to point out that the inventors, and perpetrators of the horrific policy of Apartheid in South Africa were all loyal members of the Dutch Reformed Church. It's a dogmatic religious point of view that espouses the Old Testament laws regarding the "children of Ham" being "servants and water carriers forever" and women as property to be traded, or murdered by the whim of men, including priests (Judges 19), while ignoring all the dietary laws, and the restrictions of mixing fabrics. 1948 - 1994 Apartheid murder, incarceration, wars, all perpetrated by God-fearing men who saw it as their sacred duty to carry out the laws of Moses (except for their Sunday pork rib barbecues of course).
A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field, however fertile, without cultivation. - Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BCE - 43 BCE)
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