All of the above responses are simple denials that atheism had anything to do with these genocides.
You are all running away from this FACT:

The atheist genocidal dictator did not carry out the millions of murders by himself. He needed help.

From who? Those who had the same mindset as he (the murderous atheist) of course. Who else?

When anyone builds a regime, he surrounds himself with like-minded people who will agree with, and carry out his murderous plans without complaint. If the leader is an atheist, he will not surround himself with and expect help from Christians, for example. Or Jews. Especially since Christians and Jews were included in those murdered.

Which brings up another question: How many Jews, Christians, and people of faith in general, in total millions, were murdered by these atheist regimes? Pastors, rabbis, nuns, priests, elders, and regular attendees of churches, temples, and synagogues?

In the case of these many genocidal atheist dictators (which pretty much covers all of the dictators of the 20th century), each one of them had lots of helpers to murder lots of people. Lots of helpers. In fact, tens of thousands of helpers.

Any sensible person would have to suspect that many of those 'helpers' were themselves atheists.

Hermit wrote:Not this canard again. Yes, atheist dictators have committed mass murders in the 20th century. So have theist dictators. Dictators are psychopaths regardless of whether they subscribe to a religion, or not.

The list of atheist dictators in the OP pretty much covers most of the dictators of the 20th century.

Who are the born-again Christian dictators you are referring to?

truelgbt wrote:
The atheist genocidal dictator did not carry out the millions of murders by himself. He needed help.

From who? Those who had the same mindset as he (the murderous atheist) of course. Who else?

When anyone builds a regime, he surrounds himself with like-minded people who will agree with, and carry out his murderous plans without complaint. If the leader is an atheist, he will not surround himself with and expect help from Christians, for example. Or Jews. Especially since Christians and Jews were included in those murdered.

Which brings up another question: How many Jews, Christians, and people of faith in general, in total millions, were murdered by these atheist regimes? Pastors, rabbis, nuns, priests, elders, and regular attendees of churches, temples, and synagogues?

In the case of these many genocidal atheist dictators (which pretty much covers all of the dictators of the 20th century), each one of them had lots of helpers to murder lots of people. Lots of helpers. In fact, tens of thousands of helpers.

Any sensible person would have to suspect that many of those 'helpers' were themselves atheists.

You have absolutely no idea how genocidal dictatorships work, do you?

Hermit wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:Ahh but the atheist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators are worse than the theist maniacally psychopathic murdering dictators because scripture doesn't justify their maniacal psychopathic murder!

Actually, not only does scripture justify maniacal psychopathic murder, it explicitly commands it.

Deuteronomy 7:2

And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them

Deuteronomy 20:16-18

But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee

That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

1) You don't even believe the Bible so you don't believe these killings even happened or were ordered by God or anyone else, correct?

2) God did order killings for those who were from hybrid people groups living in specific cities though. Heavenly creatures called "Sons of God" (not angels/demons, not Seth's relatives) under Satan's control came to earth and had sex with women, resulting in hybrids (Nephilim) rather than humans. The ill-tempered and violent Goliath is mentioned as one of them, along with his brothers. This was Satan's attempt to distort/corrupt God's work of creating man in His Image. This is why King David executed war captives who were extra tall/huge and why the Israelites initially refused to even attempt to conquer Palestine, despite their own powerful military strength . The extremely violent Nephilim filled the world with murder, resulting in God's Judgment through the Flood. If God had not destroyed the Nephilim, it is quite possible mankind would not exist today.

Genesis 6: "When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

Numbers 13:31: "But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

Doubtdispelled wrote:

truelgbt wrote:
The atheist genocidal dictator did not carry out the millions of murders by himself. He needed help.

From who? Those who had the same mindset as he (the murderous atheist) of course. Who else?

When anyone builds a regime, he surrounds himself with like-minded people who will agree with, and carry out his murderous plans without complaint. If the leader is an atheist, he will not surround himself with and expect help from Christians, for example. Or Jews. Especially since Christians and Jews were included in those murdered.

Which brings up another question: How many Jews, Christians, and people of faith in general, in total millions, were murdered by these atheist regimes? Pastors, rabbis, nuns, priests, elders, and regular attendees of churches, temples, and synagogues?

In the case of these many genocidal atheist dictators (which pretty much covers all of the dictators of the 20th century), each one of them had lots of helpers to murder lots of people. Lots of helpers. In fact, tens of thousands of helpers.

Any sensible person would have to suspect that many of those 'helpers' were themselves atheists.

You have absolutely no idea how genocidal dictatorships work, do you?

And you do because you have first-hand experience? If so, I bet he was an atheist.

Why is it that the vast majority of the most vicious dictators of the 20th century are atheist? You can look up their own words and see that they are indeed atheists. Its ridiculous to deny it at this point.

Is it just a terrible coincidence?

A terrible misunderstanding?

Have drum, will bang. On and on and on.....

truelgbt wrote:
1) You don't even believe the Bible so you don't believe these killings even happened or were ordered by God or anyone else, correct?

Your question is basically illegible, and an insight into how blunt your mind is.

What does it mean 'believe the Bible'? The Bible's a book - I believe there is a Bible, I believe that the Bible contains many words expressing many ideas. Some of those ideas I don't believe. Some I do.

I don't know whether these killings ever happened or not. I don't know if they're allegorical or if they're the much transfigured memory of some event that happened which morphed through the retelling.

I obviously don't believe they were ordered by "God" because that's insane. But I believe that fundamentalist Christians believe it to be literal, and so they literally believe that God ordered these killings, and so I submit that exemplifies the point I was making and to which you replied... in agreement?

truelgbt wrote:2) God did order killings for those who were from hybrid people groups living in specific cities though.

So you're writing to say that you agree with what I said: the Bible does explicitly command murder.

truelgbt wrote: Heavenly creatures called "Sons of God" (not angels/demons, not Seth's relatives) under Satan's control came to earth and had sex with women, resulting in hybrids (Nephilim) rather than humans.

If you could just pause there for about 15 more minutes - my 8 year old son's about to go to bed, and I've run out of fantasy novels to read him. I have to be honest though, you might need to work that script a little because I think even he'd struggle to suspend his disbelief in magical devil children.

truelgbt wrote:The ill-tempered and violent Goliath is mentioned as one of them, along with his brothers.

Ooh, what's it say about Legolas? I like Legolas.

truelgbt wrote: This was Satan's attempt to distort/corrupt God's work of creating man in His Image.

But Satan was of course COMPLETELY POWERLESS against the all powerful creator of everything who incidentally had also created the demons, and apparently had created humans and magical sky demons to be co-fertile too! And so despite Satan's grump, nothing bad every happened because all-good God used His all-power to prevent evil before it could even occur thanks to his all-knowledge.

Oh wait! It's almost like this fairy tale is internally inconsistent, let alone evidently false.

truelgbt wrote:This is why King David executed war captives who were extra tall/huge and why the Israelites initially refused to even attempt to conquer Palestine, despite their own powerful military strength .

So you agree that the Bible justifies maniacal psychopathic murder.

truelgbt wrote:The extremely violent Nephilim filled the world with murder, resulting in God's Judgment through the Flood. If God had not destroyed the Nephilim, it is quite possible mankind would not exist today.

And it's not like the Magical Demon Sky Pixies could have just popped back down and shagged a few more hoomey wimmin, right... because that was like... oh God magicked it so that it could never happen again, and popped a rainbow in the sky which is actually just a brightly coloured chastity belt for Earth.

It does get a bit tricky that God got all MURDER EVERYTHING when He must have known from before He even created the Universe that this was going to happen, and - being all powerful - could have stopped it at ANY point - could even have reversed it.... but no, all powerful, all knowing, all good - the ONLY possible solution is DROWN ALL THE SQUISHIES.

truelgbt wrote:Genesis 6: "When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The Lord of the Rings - Chapter something:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

But oh no, the Mortal Men couldn't be satisfied with their NINE rings, could they? And those greedy dwarves grubbing around in the ground like the own it! Tut tut! Imagine what a beautiful world it would have been had Celebrimbor never turned his attentions to jewelry.

truelgbt wrote:
And you do because you have first-hand experience? If so, I bet he was an atheist.

Bigot.

Doubtdispelled may have had first-hand experience of a female atheist maniacal psychopathic murderer.

truelgbt wrote:Why is it that the vast majority of the most vicious dictators of the 20th century are atheist?

Hmm, let's see!

Ooh I know, I know!

Because it's not a coincidence that you are a vicious bigot motivated by your hatred to seek out people you hate purely on ideological grounds just to be an obnoxious asshole to them, and that your viciously bigoted assertion is complete fucking lies.

Yep, I think that pretty much sums it all up.

truelgbt wrote: You can look up their own words and see that they are indeed atheists.

We already played the 'who said this' game, didn't we?

So we know you're lying again.

Who do you think you're convincing by lying so ignorantly? No one here, that's for sure.

Perhaps it's yourself you're lying to - trying to bolster your flagging belief by contriving a 'them' to hate so you don't need to inspect your own depravity.

truelgbt wrote: Its ridiculous to deny it at this point.

It is ridiculous that you've ignored the numerous citations of 20th century dictators expressing their belief in God, and their revulsion for atheism - yes, but then you are a ridiculous chap.

truelgbt wrote: Is it just a terrible coincidence?

Indeed it is just a terrible coincidence as per my first point.

truelgbt wrote: A terrible misunderstanding?

More like a deluded misunderstanding. An intentionally deluded misunderstanding. An intentionally deluded misunderstanding serving as a stage on which to publicly rehearse your vapid bigotry.

Yes, I think the last one has the measure of it.

Hermit wrote: Yes, atheist dictators have committed mass murders in the 20th century. So have theist dictators. Dictators are psychopaths regardless of whether they subscribe to a religion, or not.

Hermit - Someone else answered my question to you, but not you. So here it is again.

What born-again Christian can you specifically name, who specifically named Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, who was also a dictator who killed millions - just like all of those atheist dictators listed in the OP?

The reason I ask this is because many people in the USA claim to be theists - up to 70%. Yet, 70% of the population do not go to a Christian church or claim to be born-again or name Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

They are simply theists - they believe in the EXISTENCE of God and that's all. Coming to the conclusion that a God or god exists is a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence but that does not make anyone a Christian. Muslim suicide bombers are theists and look at all the blood on their hands.

So, please name a born-again Christian who was also a dictator. Will wait for your answer.

Ahh so all those apparently Christian maniacal murdering dictators were No True Christians, therefore no Christian has ever been a maniacal murdering psychopath.

So easy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly.[1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric.[4] This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true, pure, genuine, authentic, real", etc.[2][5]

Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt.[1] The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:[6]

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

truelgbt wrote:Muslim suicide bombers are theists and look at all the blood on their hands.

Ahh no, see - according to this guy I know, they were just theists. A True Muslim wouldn't do that.

truelgbt wrote:

Hermit wrote: Yes, atheist dictators have committed mass murders in the 20th century. So have theist dictators. Dictators are psychopaths regardless of whether they subscribe to a religion, or not.

Hermit - Someone else answered my question to you, but not you. So here it is again.

What born-again Christian can you specifically name, who specifically named Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, who was also a dictator who killed millions - just like all of those atheist dictators listed in the OP?

The term "born again" originated in the age of the rise of televangelism and new religious dogmas breaking away from the customary ones that emerged after the Martin Luther era of revolt against the Catholic Church.

During the reign of Henry VII in England, there was a small number of people who rebelled against the dictates of the Catholic Church and the prohibition on people reading the bible for themselves. Henry followed this type of thinking by making himself the head of the church in England, thereby opening up the opportunity for Wesley, Calvin and the like to create similar churches in the kingdom, especially after the King James Version became accessible to the general populace. People could read and interpret the text for themselves, as members of the English church and other major Protestant religions in Europe, and the rise of small denominations began, with Calvinism becoming the Presbyterians in the UK, and the Dutch Reformed Church in Europe. Wesley's dogma became the Methodists who led the Pilgrims to the "New World", where the exploration of small groups of people formed their own dogma as they explored the continent from west to east.

This is where the various evangelicals formed their religious cults, eventually leading massive religious organisations under leaders such as Biily Graham in the mid-1900s. The idea of adult baptism and rebirth after the interpretation of John the Baptist as the inventor of adult baptism was behind the phrase of "being born again". These people and the various cults they formed, took their religion out of America via missionaries to the various lands they discovered were being indoctrinated by the Catholics, Methodists, and Islam, and while the dictators in these places adopted the religion and ran mass killings of people who they perceived as being "sinners" i.e. Catholics, Muslims, gay people, trans-gender people, anyone who didn't conform to the indoctrination they received at the hands of the confusion of missionary-run schools, changing their youth from traditional forms of worship to something new, something that promised they would live after death. So to ask for a dictator who was also a "born again Christian" is a little of a wide stretch. Mussolini was a catholic, Hitler and "other"-hating psychopath who was raised under German Calvinism, i.e. Lutheran after the teaching of Matin Luther, so the born-again business didn't reach them, but it did form part of the excuse Idi Amin used to murder people he perceived as against the missionary-taught religion he was baptised into.

The reason I ask this is because many people in the USA claim to be theists - up to 70%. Yet, 70% of the population do not go to a Christian church or claim to be born-again or name Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

It's the same everywhere. People call themselves Christians as opposed to being Catholics or Muslims, but they're not practicing "Christians" just Sunday socialising at the church Christians.

They are simply theists - they believe in the EXISTENCE of God and that's all. Coming to the conclusion that a God or god exists is a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence but that does not make anyone a Christian. Muslim suicide bombers are theists and look at all the blood on their hands.

I doubt they actually believe in God. I think it's more a case off what people do on Sundays, but the rest of the week they go about their business without mentioning their religion unless it's asked on a census form, or they have to fill in a block in an employment application, or a hospital admission form.

So, please name a born-again Christian who was also a dictator. Will wait for your answer.

A quick look around the internet tells me that Idi Amin was a Catholic until he converted to Islam.

Robert Mugabe was a staunch Catholic, educated by Jesuits.

The perpetrators of Apartheid in South Africa were devout members of the Dutch Reformed Church who, while they don't use the term "born again" see it as absolution of your "sins" and acceptance of their teaching, and of course handing over 10% of your income to them in the form of filling an envelope at the end of each round of payment of your earnings. Apartheid was definitely a dictatorship, although it's not formally treated as such, the dogma of religion dictating that some people are "more than" others based on ethnicity, is dictatorship.

From Wikipedia:

The Oxford Handbook of Religion and American Politics notes: "The GSS ... has asked a born-again question on three occasions ... 'Would you say you have been 'born again' or have had a 'born-again' experience?" The Handbook says that "Evangelical, black, and Latino Protestants tend to respond similarly, with about two-thirds of each group answering in the affirmative. In contrast, only about one third of mainline Protestants and one sixth of Catholics (Anglo and Latino) claim a born-again experience." However, the handbook suggests that "born-again questions are poor measures even for capturing evangelical respondents. ... it is likely that people who report a born-again experience also claim it as an identity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again

To ask for the name of a dictator who would claim having been "born again" is one of those questions that can't be answered for the simple reason that a dictator would never admit that they were ever wrong. They might admit that they found one religion worked better for them than another, but the very term "dictator" means someone who rules under the fallacy that they, personally, have never made any mistakes, are faultless in their behaviour, and of superior intellect, and therefore simply admitting that they were previously "sinners" and needed to be "born again" to become something else, simply goes against the idea of dictatorship. A narcissist his never wrong. The truth is their truth, i.e. the way they see and interpret even things that actually have an element of truth in them. They'll not admit to being wrong, not even when they adopt a new form of worship.

Notice how we get the inevitable grubby goalpost shifting and no true scotsmans? It's the usual predictable dishonest MO. Not the first, won't be the last.
As if 'Born-again' actually means anything. A trivial web search will bring up 'Born Agains' caught kiddie fiddling as well as bog standard Christian kiddie fiddlers.

Splitter!!

Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 of No True Northern Conservative Baptists

BlackBart wrote:Notice how we get the inevitable grubby goalpost shifting and no true scotsmans? It's the usual predictable dishonest MO. Not the first, won't be the last.
As if 'Born-again' actually means anything. A trivial web search will bring up 'Born Agains' caught kiddie fiddling as well as bog standard Christian kiddie fiddlers.

Exactly, it's a term used to describe having found Jesus and thereby being excused for whatever crime they've committed. You see this in death-penalty criminals who try to gain public forgiveness for the horrors of their crimes, and, according to the "born-again" types means they've gone to heaven. Well if heaven is populated with the likes of Gacy, and some 400+ other murderers, thanks very much but I'll pass. I'll take my chances with the idea that when I die I'm just going to be a pile of rotting flesh before they stick me in an oven and reduce me to a pile of ash. I don't care what happens afterwards I'll be dead. Now, I want respect, which I think I've earned, not deserved because of being old, and treats made of sugar and flavouring, including chocolate. I don't need anything more than just food, a warm bed, a dog to sleep on my feet, and some electronics to play with. The rest, whomever wants it, can take it.

truelgbt's posts are a very sad read of someone who is trying, badly, to convince themselves of the evils of atheism, rather than try to persuade anyone else. At least that is what it looks like.

truelgbt - why do you feel it is necessary to try and persuade people here in order to solidify your convictions?

Fuck knows. He seems to be trying to convince himself of the evils of anything other than his own myopic definition of theism.