Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

Atheism, secularism & freethought etc.

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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#221  Postby Fallible » May 27, 2016 7:45 am

:roll:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#222  Postby Arnold Layne » May 27, 2016 8:37 am

John Platko wrote:Well now this is an interesting way to go about it:

Why not pray to :

a large African-American lesbian with an Afro that reached the edges of the universe.

and from

Each morning and night, Sigfried Gold drops to his knees on the beige carpeting of his bedroom, lowers his forehead to the floor and prays to God.

In a sense.

An atheist, Gold took up prayer out of desperation. Overweight by 110 pounds and depressed, the 45-year-old software designer saw himself drifting from his wife and young son. He joined a 12-step program for food addiction that required — as many 12-step programs do — a recognition of God and prayer.

Four years later, Gold is trim, far happier in his relationships and free of a lifelong ennui. He credits a rigorous prayer routine — morning, night and before each meal — to a very vivid goddess he created with a name, a detailed appearance and a key feature for an atheist: She doesn’t exist.

While Gold doesn’t believe there is some supernatural being out there attending to his prayers, he calls his creation “God” and describes himself as having had a “conversion” that can be characterized only as a “miracle.” His life has been mysteriously transformed, he says, by the power of asking.

“If you say, ‘I ought to have more serenity about the things I can’t change,’ versus ‘Grant me serenity,’ there is a humility, a surrender, an openness. If you say, ‘grant me,’ you’re saying you can’t do it by yourself. Or you wouldn’t be there,” said Gold, who lives in Takoma Park.


Would you like to hear my anecdote about how I Iost weight (about 1 stone, 6.5kgs) since Xmas without inventing an imaginary god/godess, without praying, just by eating and drinking a bit less and exercising more, because that's how it's done?

:roll:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#223  Postby John Platko » May 27, 2016 12:31 pm

Arnold Layne wrote:
John Platko wrote:Well now this is an interesting way to go about it:

Why not pray to :

a large African-American lesbian with an Afro that reached the edges of the universe.

and from

Each morning and night, Sigfried Gold drops to his knees on the beige carpeting of his bedroom, lowers his forehead to the floor and prays to God.

In a sense.

An atheist, Gold took up prayer out of desperation. Overweight by 110 pounds and depressed, the 45-year-old software designer saw himself drifting from his wife and young son. He joined a 12-step program for food addiction that required — as many 12-step programs do — a recognition of God and prayer.

Four years later, Gold is trim, far happier in his relationships and free of a lifelong ennui. He credits a rigorous prayer routine — morning, night and before each meal — to a very vivid goddess he created with a name, a detailed appearance and a key feature for an atheist: She doesn’t exist.

While Gold doesn’t believe there is some supernatural being out there attending to his prayers, he calls his creation “God” and describes himself as having had a “conversion” that can be characterized only as a “miracle.” His life has been mysteriously transformed, he says, by the power of asking.

“If you say, ‘I ought to have more serenity about the things I can’t change,’ versus ‘Grant me serenity,’ there is a humility, a surrender, an openness. If you say, ‘grant me,’ you’re saying you can’t do it by yourself. Or you wouldn’t be there,” said Gold, who lives in Takoma Park.


Would you like to hear my anecdote about how I Iost weight (about 1 stone, 6.5kgs) since Xmas without inventing an imaginary god/godess, without praying, just by eating and drinking a bit less and exercising more, because that's how it's done?

:roll:


Congratulations! I'm glad that worked for you. But if some need a bit of help from an imaginary "large African-American lesbian with an Afro that reached the edges of the universe", or the equivalent, then I'm happy for them too - especially if they know that they are imagining the god they are praying to. :cheers:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#224  Postby Arnold Layne » May 27, 2016 8:40 pm

Well, I'm happy for them too, if it helps them lose weight.

But, it's not a god, and it seems they must know that praying to an imaginary entity doesn't do any good. However, a routine does help in losing weight, so as long as they have included actually useful things in that routine then it will work.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#225  Postby John Platko » May 27, 2016 9:56 pm

Arnold Layne wrote:Well, I'm happy for them too, if it helps them lose weight.

But, it's not a god, and it seems they must know that praying to an imaginary entity doesn't do any good.


:nono: We learned here that praying to an imaginary entity can do good. It's a form of CBT self-talk therapy and it improves some metacognitive skills.


However, a routine does help in losing weight, so as long as they have included actually useful things in that routine then it will work.


As long as you don't do your praying in the church of the golden arches.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#226  Postby Fallible » May 28, 2016 7:27 am

Oh, you're trying waaaay too hard. Way WAY too hard. Proper trolling takes subtlety. The marks should never be entirely sure that you are trolling. You jumped the shark.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#227  Postby BlackBart » May 28, 2016 8:05 am

Yeah, but that's OK because jumping an imaginary shark is good for your metadoodahs. Or something.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#228  Postby Fallible » May 28, 2016 8:17 am

One can never be too careful with one's metadoodahs.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#229  Postby BlackBart » May 28, 2016 8:20 am

Especially when one is jumping a shark. :shock:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#230  Postby Fallible » May 28, 2016 8:27 am

Thank goodness it's imaginary! Ole John here is quite clearly referring to the other kind of CBT - Cosset Bitten Todger.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#231  Postby John Platko » May 28, 2016 12:50 pm

Fallible wrote:Thank goodness it's imaginary! Ole John here is quite clearly referring to the other kind of CBT - Cosset Bitten Todger^


:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:

from
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy.[1] It was originally designed to treat depression, but is now used for a number of mental disorders.[2][3]

It works to solve current problems and change unhelpful thinking and behavior.[1] The name refers to behavior therapy, cognitive therapy, and therapy based upon a combination of basic behavioral and cognitive principles.[1] Most therapists working with patients dealing with anxiety and depression use a blend of cognitive and behavioral therapy. This technique acknowledges that there may be behaviors that cannot be controlled through rational thought, but rather emerge based on prior conditioning from the environment and other external and/or internal stimuli.


Which I initially intuitively linked to prayer but later found a world renowned psychological anthropologist who clearly explained what the actual linkage is. And anyone can watch her explain this while the good people at Harvard listened attentively - (They didn't troll her for saying this. :nono: ) Now, if someone has the actual (i.e. non imagined) expertise to dispute her findings they should do so.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#232  Postby BlackBart » May 28, 2016 1:02 pm

John Platko wrote:
:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:


Yeah, Fallible! Duuh-uh!! :dopey:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#233  Postby John Platko » May 28, 2016 1:37 pm

BlackBart wrote:
John Platko wrote:
:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:


Yeah, Fallible! Duuh-uh!! :dopey:


:nono: Fallible was not the only one who - how shall I put it :scratch: failed to appreciate the insightful linkage I made between prayer and CBT therapy once I learned the basics of what CBT therapy was about.

And since I have the comment open: as I was cooking eggs this morning while pondering atheists praying to large long haired lesbians and such, it dawned on me that the risk/reward of atheists engaging in such prayer might lean more toward the reward column than it would for the average theist who often seems to get their idea maps into the weeds because they actually believe that the God they are imagining exists beyond the substrate of their neural fabric. History is littered with the batty ideas that actual belief can lead to. It's just a hypothesis mind you, and there are reasons to think it not true- Prof. Lurhmann seems to highly rate the importance of believing in the God you imagine and the word "imagine" might make belief difficult for some. Still, it's worth pondering. :think:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#234  Postby BlackBart » May 28, 2016 3:15 pm

Sorry John, got as far as 'Fallible' then got distracted by something interesting. :coffee:
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#235  Postby John Platko » May 28, 2016 5:10 pm

BlackBart wrote:Sorry John, got as far as 'Fallible' then got distracted by something interesting. :coffee:


I understand, time is limited (at least for us humans). And building on that thought, I stumbled across this video which is a pretty good summary of the later part of the discussion in the sister thread to this one and is relevant here also, - it might be useful to any late comers to the topic who would benefit from a quick summary. It certainly deals with that red Clupeidae intercessory prayer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/3 ... 64622.html
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#236  Postby The_Metatron » May 28, 2016 5:12 pm

You still seem to be laboring under the further delusion that everyone is about to run off and read or view every piece of shit to which you post a link.


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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#237  Postby John Platko » May 28, 2016 5:47 pm

The_Metatron wrote:You still seem to be laboring under the further delusion that everyone is about to run off and read or view every piece of shit to which you post a link.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk.


:nono: I posted that last link for those who don't have the time to see the more detailed presentations from Harvard and elsewhere - although they are certainly worth watching.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#238  Postby Fallible » May 28, 2016 7:37 pm

John Platko wrote:
Fallible wrote:Thank goodness it's imaginary! Ole John here is quite clearly referring to the other kind of CBT - Cosset Bitten Todger^


:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:

from
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy.[1] It was originally designed to treat depression, but is now used for a number of mental disorders.[2][3]

It works to solve current problems and change unhelpful thinking and behavior.[1] The name refers to behavior therapy, cognitive therapy, and therapy based upon a combination of basic behavioral and cognitive principles.[1] Most therapists working with patients dealing with anxiety and depression use a blend of cognitive and behavioral therapy. This technique acknowledges that there may be behaviors that cannot be controlled through rational thought, but rather emerge based on prior conditioning from the environment and other external and/or internal stimuli.


Which I initially intuitively linked to prayer but later found a world renowned psychological anthropologist who clearly explained what the actual linkage is. And anyone can watch her explain this while the good people at Harvard listened attentively - (They didn't troll her for saying this. :nono: ) Now, if someone has the actual (i.e. non imagined) expertise to dispute her findings they should do so.


You don't seem to understand. You jumped the shark vis-a-vis trolling. This means that I don't bother to attempt a meaningful reply now. I'm sorry for your wasted ummm...effort. Heh.
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#239  Postby Fallible » May 28, 2016 7:39 pm

John Platko wrote:
BlackBart wrote:
John Platko wrote:
:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:


Yeah, Fallible! Duuh-uh!! :dopey:


:nono: Fallible [...] failed[...]


:nono: Impossible.

And since I have the comment open: as I was cooking eggs this morning while pondering atheists praying to large long haired lesbians and such, it dawned on me that the risk/reward of atheists engaging in such prayer might lean more toward the reward column than it would for the average theist who often seems to get their idea maps into the weeds because they actually believe that the God they are imagining exists beyond the substrate of their neural fabric. History is littered with the batty ideas that actual belief can lead to. It's just a hypothesis mind you, and there are reasons to think it not true- Prof. Lurhmann seems to highly rate the importance of believing in the God you imagine and the word "imagine" might make belief difficult for some. Still, it's worth pondering. :think:


Noise.
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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Re: Atheistic definitions of the word god to use at AA

#240  Postby John Platko » May 28, 2016 8:33 pm

Fallible wrote:
John Platko wrote:
Fallible wrote:Thank goodness it's imaginary! Ole John here is quite clearly referring to the other kind of CBT - Cosset Bitten Todger^


:nono: I am quite clearly referring to:

from
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a form of psychotherapy.[1] It was originally designed to treat depression, but is now used for a number of mental disorders.[2][3]

It works to solve current problems and change unhelpful thinking and behavior.[1] The name refers to behavior therapy, cognitive therapy, and therapy based upon a combination of basic behavioral and cognitive principles.[1] Most therapists working with patients dealing with anxiety and depression use a blend of cognitive and behavioral therapy. This technique acknowledges that there may be behaviors that cannot be controlled through rational thought, but rather emerge based on prior conditioning from the environment and other external and/or internal stimuli.


Which I initially intuitively linked to prayer but later found a world renowned psychological anthropologist who clearly explained what the actual linkage is. And anyone can watch her explain this while the good people at Harvard listened attentively - (They didn't troll her for saying this. :nono: ) Now, if someone has the actual (i.e. non imagined) expertise to dispute her findings they should do so.


You don't seem to understand. You jumped the shark vis-a-vis trolling. This means that I don't bother to attempt a meaningful reply now. I'm sorry for your wasted ummm...effort. Heh.


Rest assured that I was not off holding my breath waiting for a an informative refute of Prof. Lurhmann's linkage between prayer and CBT from you. :nono: Rather, I leave it to any astute reader who may find their way winding through this, and the other thread to decided for themselves if they find the ideas you have shared with us on the subject, meager as they have been, or those of Stanford Professor Luhrmann, more credible.
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