Mick wrote:


I wouldn't doubt that we share very dissimilar ideas. You can account for this by the degree of illiteracy here in regards to Catholicism or religion. http://worldhistoryconnected.press.illi ... moore.html

Mick wrote:I wouldn't doubt that we share very dissimilar ideas. You can account for this by the degree of illiteracy here in regards to Catholicism or religion. http://worldhistoryconnected.press.illi ... moore.html

As encouraging as this data is for secular humanists...

Nebogipfel wrote:

As encouraging as this data is for secular humanists...

Actually, I'm rather pessimistic on this point. If history is any guide, in a thousand years' time people will probably still be incanting rosaries and praying to saints, while Newton, Darwin and Einstein are all but forgotten.

NineOneFour wrote:http://www.alternet.org/belief/religion-america-great-decline-christian-right-has-major-role-hastening-it

Of those aged 18 to 35, three in 10 say they are not affiliated with any religion, while only half are “absolutely certain” a god exists. These are at or near the highest levels of religious disaffiliation recorded for any generation in the 25 years the Pew Research Center has been polling on these topics.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:http://www.alternet.org/belief/religion-america-great-decline-christian-right-has-major-role-hastening-it

Of those aged 18 to 35, three in 10 say they are not affiliated with any religion, while only half are “absolutely certain” a god exists. These are at or near the highest levels of religious disaffiliation recorded for any generation in the 25 years the Pew Research Center has been polling on these topics.

I don't think spiritual beliefs are necessarily constant across life experiences. The young are always over exuberant and blind about many of life's realities. I would expect many of those in that category will pick up spiritual beliefs later in life. Many won't true, but many will.

NineOneFour wrote:
And this generation is less religious than any previous generation at the same time for that generation:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I think it is clear that real atheism is definitely on the rise in many parts of the west, but world wide Christianity is doing extremely well. Furthermore, if you look simply at beliefs in a spiritual reality the numbers are very high all across the world. It's a misreading of what you see if you think that humanity's future will be an atheistic one. Not by a long shot.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:
And this generation is less religious than any previous generation at the same time for that generation:

Yes, I got that. I even believe your trend will continue upward. How far; I'm not sure.

My point was that I don't think those rates hold through out life. In other words some number of those who cavalierly reject spirituality at 20 in any generation will change their attitudes with age.

I would also point out that saying "no religion" hardly places them in the category of hardcore materialist.

NineOneFour wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I think it is clear that real atheism is definitely on the rise in many parts of the west, but world wide Christianity is doing extremely well. Furthermore, if you look simply at beliefs in a spiritual reality the numbers are very high all across the world. It's a misreading of what you see if you think that humanity's future will be an atheistic one. Not by a long shot.

Nice try.

NineOneFour wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:
And this generation is less religious than any previous generation at the same time for that generation:

Yes, I got that. I even believe your trend will continue upward. How far; I'm not sure.

My point was that I don't think those rates hold through out life. In other words some number of those who cavalierly reject spirituality at 20 in any generation will change their attitudes with age.

Except that you really DON'T see a lot of people getting more religious as they get older. Older people are more religious because they were more religious when they were younger.

I would also point out that saying "no religion" hardly places them in the category of hardcore materialist.

Whatever the hell that means.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I think it is clear that real atheism is definitely on the rise in many parts of the west, but world wide Christianity is doing extremely well. Furthermore, if you look simply at beliefs in a spiritual reality the numbers are very high all across the world. It's a misreading of what you see if you think that humanity's future will be an atheistic one. Not by a long shot.

Nice try.

Notice my claim was that Christianity is doing very well, and real Christianity is doing very well in many parts of the world. The worse conditions get the better it will do. People who are nominal Christians will decrease, of course.

I don't trust the survey methodology to accurately represent the 3rd world or even the 2nd world for that matter. I think it will over represent higher incomes.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:
And this generation is less religious than any previous generation at the same time for that generation:

Yes, I got that. I even believe your trend will continue upward. How far; I'm not sure.

My point was that I don't think those rates hold through out life. In other words some number of those who cavalierly reject spirituality at 20 in any generation will change their attitudes with age.

Except that you really DON'T see a lot of people getting more religious as they get older. Older people are more religious because they were more religious when they were younger.

I disagree. I think some percentage of 20 year olds in any generation will become spiritual as they grow older. Of course it's not linear as they age, but it happens.

I would also point out that saying "no religion" hardly places them in the category of hardcore materialist.

Whatever the hell that means.

It means they are more likely to become spiritual as they grow older.

Young 'Nones' Set To Transform The Political Landscape
October 09, 2012

Culture warriors on the left and right would be wise to carefully examine a new survey from the Pew Research Center showing that a growing number of Americans are moving away from religious labels.

The study, titled 'Nones' on the Rise, indicates that 1 in 5 Americans now identifies as "religiously unaffiliated," a group that includes those who say they have no particular religion, as well as atheists and agnostics.

Perhaps more instructive is a close look at the age breakdown: If you're under 30, there's a 1-in-3 chance that religion plays little or no role in your life, according to the survey.

"This finding and the growth of this group has very real political consequences and political implications," says Greg Smith, a senior researcher at the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life and a co-author of the study.

Some 63 percent of them identify as Democrats or say they lean toward the Democrats; only 26 percent identify as Republicans or lean that way. Most of them call themselves moderate or liberal, and only 20 percent say they are conservative.

Beyond that, this group seldom or never attends worship services or prays, is more likely to have at least some college, and is roughly split between those who call themselves "spiritual but not religious" (37 percent) and those who say they are "neither spiritual nor religious" (42 percent).

"One of the ways that the religiously unaffiliated are most distinctive is with their views on things such as same-sex marriage and abortion," Smith says.

"The religiously unaffiliated tend to be quite liberal in their views on those kinds of issues," he says. "About three-quarters of them say that abortion should be legal in all cases. A similar number favor same-sex couples to marry."

What's more, there's little evidence to show that "generational cohorts" tend to become more religious as they get older, Smith says. So today's young "nones" are likely to stay that way.


Ann Duncan, an assistant professor of religion at Goucher College in Baltimore, agrees that "younger voters in particular are frustrated with the failure or refusal of traditional denominations to change with the times and embrace broader ideas on marriage and the environment, for example."

Duncan believes the growing number of unaffiliated, along with the infusion of religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism from Asian immigrants, will cause increasing political polarization in the short term.

"It's terrifying to a portion of the population that views the United States as a Christian nation," she says. "There is a certain segment that will see this as a sort of call to arms and a sign that it's time to step things up and to really assert a Christian identity for the nation."

The Pew study doesn't say what is driving the gap, but David Campbell, a political science professor at the University of Notre Dame, thinks he knows.

"There is considerable evidence suggesting that the 'nones' have actually been caused by politics," says Campbell, co-author of American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us. "Many people have pulled away from the religious label due to the mingling of religion and conservative politics."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... -landscape

New Survey Says Only Half of Millennials Look to Religion for Guidance While More Than a Third Don’t Talk to God
April 12, 2014

According to a new survey from the Integrated Innovation Institute at Carnegie Mellon University, nearly half of Millennials say they don’t look to religion for guidance and more than a third say that they don’t talk to God:



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... ographics/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... lk-to-god/

In my book Why Atheism Will Replace Religion, I lay out the evidence that religion (however measured) is in sharp decline in the most developed countries that enjoy the highest standard of living for most of the people

The perceived importance of religion (or religiosity) declines predictably with development (however measured), allowing one to predict how long it will take for religion to become unimportant for the majority of the global population. It will take approximately a quarter-century. This boils down to about a 1-percent decline of religiosity each year.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-bar ... 55172.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-bar ... 95658.html

Christians in Australia nearing minority status as religious affiliation declines sharply since 2011
April 16, 2014

If the recent trend continues, fewer than 50% of Australians may be self-identifying as Christian by this time next year.

Norman Morris, Industry Communications Director – Roy Morgan Research, says:
"By Easter next year, it could well be the first time that the majority of Australians don’t affiliate with Christianity.

"These results are not necessarily about belief, per se, but rather our changing attitudes to religious affiliation. The decline in the proportion of Australians who say they are Christian - whether Catholic, Anglican or another denomination - coupled with a similarly sized increase in the number who tell us they have no religion, could reflect a growing level of genuine atheism or agnosticism, or instead simply a shift away from identifying with organised Christianity, despite ongoing theistic faith. Likely, it is a combination of both.

"Either way, many factors could be contributing to the fall in the number of Christian adherents in Australia. For example, some morally conservative religious doctrines may be contrasting with progressive attitudes toward personal issues such as abortion, societal issues such as same-sex marriage, and global issues such as the use of condoms in the fight against the HIV pandemic.

"The recent trend also coincides with the public pressure for, launch of and media attention given to the Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse which has, as one focus, alleged crimes by religiously affiliated personnel and cover-ups by church organisations.”



http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5541- ... 1404152234

Mick wrote:In my experience, many of those who do not claim a religion are willing to admit that there's a "higher power". I don't have a good idea what that means.