Dawkins and Craig debate!

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Dawkins and Craig debate!

#1  Postby VazScep » Nov 17, 2010 11:33 am

http://douggeivett.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... r-13-2010/

The videos on youtube are difficult to watch because of a Spanish translation voiceover, but I thought it was interesting all the same. I found this amusing:

William Lane Craig wrote: I am currently in Mexico to participate in a conference called Ciudad de las Ideas, which is a conference modeled on the TED conference in the US. It features lots of high tech people, sociologists, psychologists, economists, scientists, etc.

As part of the conference they´re having a panel of six of us debate on the question “Does the Universe Have a Purpose?” Well. to my surprise, I just found out that one of the three persons on the other side is Richard Dawkins! It´s true! I met him the other night. When he came my way, I stuck out my hand and introduced myself and said, I’m surspised to see that you´re on the panel.

He replied, And why not?

I said, “Well, you´ve always refused to debate me.

His tone suddenly became icy cold. I don´t consider this to be a debate with you. The Mexicans invited me to participate, and I accepted.” At that, he turned away.

“Well, I hope we have a good discussion,” I said.

“I very much doubt it,” he said and walked off.

So it was a pretty chilly reception! The debate is Saturday morning, should you think of us. I´ll give an update after I get back.
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#2  Postby katja z » Nov 17, 2010 11:48 am

Uh-oh. So what did WLC expect, did he think Dawkins would jump around his neck as if he was a long-lost friend? I would have loved to see the encounter, Dawkins has the perfect voice and manner for that. :lol:
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#3  Postby Rubicon » Nov 17, 2010 12:05 pm

From the source in the OP:

This debate is part of the third annual Festival Internacional de Mentes Brillantes (English: International Festival of Great Minds).


International Festival of Great Minds? Then what is William Lane Craig doing there?
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#4  Postby Paul G » Nov 17, 2010 12:09 pm

Why is even there? Seriously?
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#5  Postby trubble76 » Nov 17, 2010 12:10 pm

Is David Icke going?
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#6  Postby orpheus » Nov 17, 2010 1:50 pm

:popcorn:

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "front row seat" )
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#7  Postby Shrunk » Nov 17, 2010 2:02 pm

trubble76 wrote:Is David Icke going?


Thanks for the opening (check my sig).
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Re: Dawkins and Craig debate!

#8  Postby trubble76 » Nov 17, 2010 2:03 pm

Shrunk wrote:
trubble76 wrote:Is David Icke going?


Thanks for the opening (check my sig).


Already signed it. :cheers:
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Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#9  Postby MattHunX » Nov 21, 2010 3:18 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IeHqj3Fu-Y[/youtube]
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#10  Postby natselrox » Nov 21, 2010 3:33 pm

Who's the guy by Dawkins and Ridley?
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#11  Postby MattHunX » Nov 21, 2010 3:40 pm

natselrox wrote:Who's the guy by Dawkins and Ridley?

Oh, sorry Nats, can't comment on that, yet. I actually just posted the link. Will watch it later, tonight...or tomorrow. Think I'll watch Hitchens first. :cheers:
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#12  Postby natselrox » Nov 21, 2010 3:40 pm

:cheers:
When in perplexity, read on.

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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#13  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Nov 21, 2010 8:49 pm

Argh!!! It's all mixed up....
It's so cold in the D.
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#14  Postby Aca » Nov 21, 2010 9:12 pm

WLC speech, different video

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIX94a2nX6I[/youtube]

Dawkins response

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqGtrpCvXiM[/youtube]
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#15  Postby The Plc » Nov 21, 2010 11:03 pm

The full debate was so surreal that it was like watching an episode of Father Ted, or an episode of the Simpsons where they mock an extreme caricature of some foreign cultural quirk. I really hoped for the debaters sake that the format was something cultural that I'm just not familiar with at all.

Craig was disappointing, and I've never really watched any of his debates in full, so my expectation going into the debate was that he would demonstrate these world class debating and rhetorical sophistry skills that he seems to have a reputation for, even on atheist blogs and forums. The fallacies were so large that an ocean liner could have been put through them, and indeed, as in the above clip, Dawkins did do with rather simple clarity and elegance. And then there was his final comment end, when he came close to a hissy fit, sniping over Dawkins' supposed bigotry in his anti-religious speech the day earlier. He picked up on Dawkins' point that our purposes are constructed and subjective, arguing that only god and religious can provide objective purpose, but missing the point that until you demonstrate that this god and objective purpose actually exist, then these ideas of theistic purpose are entirely constructed and subjective as well. Those weren't the arguments of a sophisticated philosopher and academic, but the wishful thinking of a desperately lost and frustrated child.

And who else failed to supress a guffaw when the other theist debater described C.S Lewis as a 'great Christian thinker'? Pfft.
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#16  Postby Scarlett » Nov 21, 2010 11:07 pm

:coffee: Bookmarking for tomorrow, not really having coffee at 11pm :nono:
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#17  Postby MattHunX » Nov 22, 2010 7:06 am

Paula1 wrote::coffee: Bookmarking for tomorrow, not really having coffee at 11pm :nono:

Oh, bad idea indeed. :)
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#18  Postby Bolero » Nov 22, 2010 7:10 am

:popcorn:
Also bookmarking
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#19  Postby MattHunX » Nov 22, 2010 7:24 am

The Plc wrote:The full debate was so surreal that it was like watching an episode of Father Ted, or an episode of the Simpsons where they mock an extreme caricature of some foreign cultural quirk. I really hoped for the debaters sake that the format was something cultural that I'm just not familiar with at all.

Craig was disappointing, and I've never really watched any of his debates in full, so my expectation going into the debate was that he would demonstrate these world class debating and rhetorical sophistry skills that he seems to have a reputation for, even on atheist blogs and forums. The fallacies were so large that an ocean liner could have been put through them, and indeed, as in the above clip, Dawkins did do with rather simple clarity and elegance. And then there was his final comment end, when he came close to a hissy fit, sniping over Dawkins' supposed bigotry in his anti-religious speech the day earlier. He picked up on Dawkins' point that our purposes are constructed and subjective, arguing that only god and religious can provide objective purpose, but missing the point that until you demonstrate that this god and objective purpose actually exist, then these ideas of theistic purpose are entirely constructed and subjective as well. Those weren't the arguments of a sophisticated philosopher and academic, but the wishful thinking of a desperately lost and frustrated child.

And who else failed to supress a guffaw when the other theist debater described C.S Lewis as a 'great Christian thinker'? Pfft.


It's unsurprising, really. They bring nothing new to debates. Recycling the same old arguments, from and to appeal to emotion, what else.

One of my early observation, when I started watching debates by the dozen, just barely over a year ago, was that almost all the loud ones, the screamers, are on the theistic side. People like D'Souza, Chopra or Boteach think if they are louder they're smarter and what they say magically becomes fact. The only "over-zealous" speaker I've heard, and keep hearing with pleasure, on the atheistic/scientific side is Neil deGrasse Tyson. But, unlike the theists, in their fervor, who don't actually say anything worthwhile, not to someone who relies on reason, Tyson and Co. are simply passionate about something that IS, something that exists, and not something they (desperately) wish would exist.

I'd also like to ask the Hitch how many times he's been through the Hitler, Stalin, Mao...etc. argument. Just another example of how the theistic side cannot manage to bring anything new to the table. They never could.

They simply reworded already existing, equally baseless arguments that neglect science and scientific facts on the subject matter of the argument. Ontological arguments, intelligent design...etc. all seemingly elaborate ploys to try to push their view into schools and try to make them appear valid and new, when they're transparent, and are clearly nothing worth a breath more.
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Re: Richard Dawkins Vs. William Lane Craig

#20  Postby Animavore » Nov 22, 2010 9:35 am

i thought dawkins was never going to debate wlc.
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