How many people have you de-converted?

Atheism, secularism & freethought etc.

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How many people have you de-converted

Poll ended at Oct 29, 2010 9:41 pm

Zero
33
72%
One to Three
11
24%
Four to Six
1
2%
Seven to Nine
1
2%
Ten or more
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 46

Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#41  Postby Denny » Jan 12, 2011 2:23 am

Nope. My last relationship failed because of it. She wanted to indoctrinate our future potential children into christianity. I told her hell no. She cheated on me one month later. :smile:
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#42  Postby Mac_Guffin » Jan 12, 2011 2:24 am

Denny wrote:Nope. My last relationship failed because of it. She wanted to indoctrinate our future potential children into christianity. I told her hell no. She cheated on me one month later. :smile:


How very christian of her.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#43  Postby Denny » Jan 12, 2011 2:30 am

Mac_Guffin wrote:
Denny wrote:Nope. My last relationship failed because of it. She wanted to indoctrinate our future potential children into christianity. I told her hell no. She cheated on me one month later. :smile:


How very christian of her.



I knooooooow. :tehe:
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#44  Postby monkeyboy » Jan 12, 2011 2:32 am

Don't know that I've deconverted anyone but I've introduced quite a few to the bible. Hopefully, one or two might actually read it, that should work. Still amazes me how many so called Xtians have never read it.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#45  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 12, 2011 2:35 am

I might try that with my wife, monkeyboy. We are still 'not talking about it'
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#46  Postby Towns » Jan 12, 2011 4:14 am

The only time i question someone's beliefs, is when they try and impose theirs onto other people. I haven't "deconverted" anyone, and i can't imagine it being relatively easy as it is. If someone can be persuaded by a simple discussion that their beliefs are wrong, then they don't really believe in it at all. The only way a true believers mind can be changed is by solid evidence, and currently, we don't have any of that

I don't like your notion that only non-believer's minds are "free". I have seen atheists that i have deemed more eccentric than most Christians.

It's not what we believe in, it's how we let it affect our daily lives that is the true problem.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#47  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 12, 2011 4:36 am

Good point Towns.

Btw, are you affected by the floods? Hope you're well off.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#48  Postby The Plc » Jan 12, 2011 4:48 am

monkeyboy wrote:Don't know that I've deconverted anyone but I've introduced quite a few to the bible. Hopefully, one or two might actually read it, that should work. Still amazes me how many so called Xtians have never read it.


Truly excellent point. Reading the Bible is probably the most effective method of deconversion, probally more so than reading Dawkins, Hitchens, Russell etc.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#49  Postby Denny » Jan 12, 2011 4:54 am

Towns wrote:The only time i question someone's beliefs, is when they try and impose theirs onto other people. I haven't "deconverted" anyone, and i can't imagine it being relatively easy as it is. If someone can be persuaded by a simple discussion that their beliefs are wrong, then they don't really believe in it at all. The only way a true believers mind can be changed is by solid evidence, and currently, we don't have any of that

I don't like your notion that only non-believer's minds are "free". I have seen atheists that i have deemed more eccentric than most Christians.

It's not what we believe in, it's how we let it affect our daily lives that is the true problem.


I don't agree. I think it's fair to say a believer's mind is not free. Not only is their interpretation of the universe and the natural world flawed but they willingly and eagerly volunteer themselves for slavedom to the divine. I don't see any correlation between eccentricity and being free in this example
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#50  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 12, 2011 5:00 am

Heh. Yeah.

My anecdote is that is essentially what 'de-converted' me: Jesus' test for being a follower. "By their fruits you shall know them." Yet it is impossible to clearly and objectively decide who is Christian. You either cut off a large portion of people (I managed to repeatedly demonstrate *I* wasn't a Christian let alone people I knew to be of less passionate belief) or incorporate people who would be horrified to be called Christian (John's "He that loveth knoweth God." etc). And this by the Divine Incarnate who demands "let your yes be yes, and your no be no. Why is the Bible (the meaning therein) interpreted?

'course I'm just 'preaching' to the converted.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#51  Postby Towns » Jan 12, 2011 6:32 am

We're only affected in the North in terms of getting supplies in. We're expecting rain in the coming days, though nothing near what happened South. How did Yeppoon fair when Rocky got flooded?

Denny wrote:
Towns wrote:The only time i question someone's beliefs, is when they try and impose theirs onto other people. I haven't "deconverted" anyone, and i can't imagine it being relatively easy as it is. If someone can be persuaded by a simple discussion that their beliefs are wrong, then they don't really believe in it at all. The only way a true believers mind can be changed is by solid evidence, and currently, we don't have any of that

I don't like your notion that only non-believer's minds are "free". I have seen atheists that i have deemed more eccentric than most Christians.

It's not what we believe in, it's how we let it affect our daily lives that is the true problem.


I don't agree. I think it's fair to say a believer's mind is not free. Not only is their interpretation of the universe and the natural world flawed but they willingly and eagerly volunteer themselves for slavedom to the divine. I don't see any correlation between eccentricity and being free in this example


You seem to be assuming that all believers are comparable to each other in terms of the 'level' of their belief. Granted, there are some fundamentalist Christians who have highly flawed views on the workings on the universe, but not all believers are at that level. What about the people that simply believe that the Christian God exists? Are there minds not 'free' by your standards?

In a completely hypothetical situation, if substantial evidence comes about that God does exist, would that mean all non-believers did not have a free mind? After all, your view of the universe would be flawed then too.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#52  Postby Mantisdreamz » Jan 12, 2011 7:03 am

Brain wrote:By now, I've given up on trying to deconvert Christians, but I wonder if anyone has successfully attempted to do so?

If you have deconverted a Christian, how exactly did you do it?

I've learned that changing someone's mind is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. I really think that Christianity has been bad for people, but I often wonder how to influence people to drop the God delusion, so that their minds can be truly free.

I've never converted anyone.

Thinking about it... if I wanted to, I'm not exactly sure what steps I'd take. The whole Jesus died for our sins thing, has never made any sense to me. I'd probably start there. How does killing someone abrogate others sins? I guess he was the 'ultimate' sacrifice... but even killing animals to annul your sins doesn't make sense. Ideally, I'd tell the person that putting your sins on another creature, and then hoping them away, is cowardly. It is. Can they not deal with their own faults?


My problem when I meet Christian's is that I don't challenge them, because I end up questioning them on their beliefs, out of interest.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#53  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 12, 2011 7:07 am

I've never tried.

The fact I won't entertain the beliefs of christians doesn't mean I care what they believe. I'm just not going to pretend I believe their nonesense or that it's true. They're welcome to carry on with their delusions though.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#54  Postby pilot » Jan 12, 2011 7:22 am

I would not claim to have 'converted' a faith head but I have been approached by a few people who had questions and clearly already had already expressed doubts. I would claim to have been in a position to answer their questions and lend them 'The God Delusion'. In the hands of a 'wobbler' the God Delusion is a very powerful book.

I would claim however to have been the final straw for a young earth creationist, I'm not exactly sure what he now is (some kind of more average christian) but he did buy a telescope, a few books on the cosmos and a book on evolution.

I would however claim to have converted a number of alternative medicine believers, to accepting that it only works because of the placebo effect.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#55  Postby paceetrate » Jan 12, 2011 7:26 am

Well I did de-convert a nominally Christian friend from Christianity. I didn't convert him to atheism though, he just went to deism. :P Basically we were discussing religion once and I quipped "How much of a religion can a person flat-out ignore and still call themselves a follower of that religion?" I think that made him think about the label he was putting on himself and whether it actually fit.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#56  Postby sennekuyl » Jan 12, 2011 9:27 am

Towns wrote:We're only affected in the North in terms of getting supplies in. We're expecting rain in the coming days, though nothing near what happened South. How did Yeppoon fair when Rocky got flooded?

Oops. I gotta update that profile. I'm in Charleville. I didn't even check your profile, just shot of at the mouth. :whistle:

Shoulda been fine; it is roughly 15km at a minimum from the mouth of the Fitzroy and most of it is relatively high anyway... Gotta check yet tho. Don't want to rush one's concern --- it never sets right
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#57  Postby Brain » Jan 12, 2011 2:24 pm

I used to be something of an "evangelical atheist," posting the videos from the YouTube channel GIIVideo on my Facebook page, along with similarly themed videos. Eventually, I just got tired of failed attempts of changing someone's mind, so I don't do all that evangelizing anymore.

Edit:

In English, I even got to do a presentation that was basically a big argument for atheism in disguise. Basically, I compared the peacefulness of religious and not-so-religious countries, then discussed the Spanish Inquisition, then discussed the benefits of science. I had fun writing the essay, but I didn't know at first that we would have to do a presentation in front of everyone, so I was really stressed. By now, I've drastically revised that essay, since I've come across information that's more relevant to that point that I actually want to make in regards to what may or may not be true.

In retrospect, I really think that I would have preferred doing a presentation called "Mormon Mythology," and it would be all about the beliefs of the followers of the Latter-day Saint movement. That definitely would have been more fun and enjoyable. :mrgreen:
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#58  Postby Denny » Jan 12, 2011 9:31 pm

Towns wrote:We're only affected in the North in terms of getting supplies in. We're expecting rain in the coming days, though nothing near what happened South. How did Yeppoon fair when Rocky got flooded?

Denny wrote:
Towns wrote:The only time i question someone's beliefs, is when they try and impose theirs onto other people. I haven't "deconverted" anyone, and i can't imagine it being relatively easy as it is. If someone can be persuaded by a simple discussion that their beliefs are wrong, then they don't really believe in it at all. The only way a true believers mind can be changed is by solid evidence, and currently, we don't have any of that

I don't like your notion that only non-believer's minds are "free". I have seen atheists that i have deemed more eccentric than most Christians.

It's not what we believe in, it's how we let it affect our daily lives that is the true problem.


I don't agree. I think it's fair to say a believer's mind is not free. Not only is their interpretation of the universe and the natural world flawed but they willingly and eagerly volunteer themselves for slavedom to the divine. I don't see any correlation between eccentricity and being free in this example


You seem to be assuming that all believers are comparable to each other in terms of the 'level' of their belief. Granted, there are some fundamentalist Christians who have highly flawed views on the workings on the universe, but not all believers are at that level. What about the people that simply believe that the Christian God exists? Are there minds not 'free' by your standards?


Yes.

In a completely hypothetical situation, if substantial evidence comes about that God does exist, would that mean all non-believers did not have a free mind? After all, your view of the universe would be flawed then too.

Well, evidence for what God exactly?

Even if Deism were proven correct, they'd still wouldn't be free. They were wrong. I was wrong too, but I came to my conclusion using critical thinking. In my opinion, rationalism + critical thinking = a free mind. Knowing something to be true without evidence is not thinking critically and is irrational.

People who push evidence away merely because it conflicts with what they believe are not free.
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#59  Postby HughMcB » Jan 12, 2011 9:59 pm

Yip I've successfully deconverted at least two in RL. :party:
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Re: Has Anyone Deconverted a Christian?

#60  Postby Driftwood » Jan 13, 2011 5:20 am

Denny wrote:
Towns wrote:The only time i question someone's beliefs, is when they try and impose theirs onto other people. I haven't "deconverted" anyone, and i can't imagine it being relatively easy as it is. If someone can be persuaded by a simple discussion that their beliefs are wrong, then they don't really believe in it at all. The only way a true believers mind can be changed is by solid evidence, and currently, we don't have any of that

I don't like your notion that only non-believer's minds are "free". I have seen atheists that i have deemed more eccentric than most Christians.

It's not what we believe in, it's how we let it affect our daily lives that is the true problem.


I don't agree. I think it's fair to say a believer's mind is not free. Not only is their interpretation of the universe and the natural world flawed but they willingly and eagerly volunteer themselves for slavedom to the divine. I don't see any correlation between eccentricity and being free in this example


I agree. Any time you fear that being a normal human with natural wants and needs will result in your eternal damnation, you're not free. Your heart and mind both are gripped in a vice of ignorance and terror.
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