How to be an Atheist apologist?

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How to be an Atheist apologist?

#1  Postby Mick » Dec 10, 2011 11:20 pm

http://secularoutpost.infidels.org/2006 ... ogist.html

Some of you should see yourselves here.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#2  Postby chairman bill » Dec 10, 2011 11:25 pm

Atheist apologists? Fail from the outset.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#3  Postby Spinozasgalt » Dec 10, 2011 11:39 pm

There's a second one of these, you know.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#4  Postby Regina » Dec 10, 2011 11:40 pm

Spinozasgalt wrote:There's a second one of these, you know.

But it's minor.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#5  Postby Moonwatcher » Dec 11, 2011 1:14 am

Well, lt's see.

1. Actually, I'd like any argument that isn't the equivalent of, "Oh, look at the flowers, therefore God" or, even better, "Oh, look at the flowers. Therefore specifically my religion's god but not the god of anybody else's religion". The latter is the one I find annoying.

2. Education may be a factor but intelligence has little to do with it. People believe in religions because those religions meet their needs. That's not getting into why most people end up in a specific religion which is mostly cultural and theists for some reason want so to avoid that reality.

3. Theists are not inherently stupid and it takes tremendous intelligence to work out some of these philosophies and they are necessary often to explain why the world isn't logically consistent with an omnipotent god.

4. The problem is that argument has to start with the assumption that moral values are objective and then use it to "prove" God so, in that case, objective moral values are the blind assertion and the existence of God the blind assertion within a blind assertion.

5. Ahem. I'm not entirely arguing on that one.

6. I whistle innocently and look at the next one.

7. I think few claim science is the only means to truth. But theists love to claim something exists as a fact and not a philosophical one, and then cry foul when they are asked for empirical evidence for an empirical claim.

8. The people who primarily use atheism as other than a lack of belief in "God" are primarily people who are trying to put believing in something without evidence on the same level as not believing it without evidence.

9. Many religious claims are testable. Many are not. Religious people tend to evade the ones that are testable and then ignore it when every testable claim fails the tests.

10. I primarily compare mythical entities that traffic in flaming swords, magic trees that give knowledge and have angels and demons running around equal probability to Santa and invisible unicorns. Gods like that are the gods most people believe in or are just derivative updates and modern facelifts of such gods. For most people, no matter how much they try to play that game, they are really talking about some ancient, tribal god. Aside from that, I've seen arguments that are based from a core concept of "God" and theists pretty much do the inductive routine as you said, just as they always do.

Let's define what God would be.

Atheist: Okay, so God is omnipotent and Love Incarnate and guided the process of life. Does reality seem to indicate that such a being exists? Honestly, no.

Theist: Okay, God is omnipotent and Love Incarnate and guided the process of life. Does the evidence support that hypothesis? Well, once we start adjusting the definition and throwing in things to force fit things as they really are then yes.

Same things that always happens with theists.

The core problem is how theists today view themselves. We live in an allegedly Rational age or at least an age where it is possible to access tremendous empirical information. They want to view themselves as having rational reasons.

But people do not believe in religions because they make sense or fit the evidence or are rational because religions do none of the above. People believe in religions because those religions give them something, meet their needs.

As to the core concept of "God" bereft of any religious agenda, I've yet to meet that person here.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#6  Postby byofrcs » Dec 11, 2011 6:32 am

Scientism doesn't actually get many supporters around here.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#7  Postby CookieJon » Dec 11, 2011 7:46 am

Mick wrote:http://secularoutpost.infidels.org/2006/12/sarcasm-how-to-be-atheist-apologist.html

Some of you should see yourselves here.


Wot moonwatcher said, except to add that that list is woefully incomplete; it only mentions capital-G-God and Jesus!

Just like the author of the article, this atheist disbelieves in many many more religions apart from just Christianity.

Perhaps the Jeffery Jay Lowder ought to include his own atheistic-apologetic arguments for disbelieving in all those other religions as well. He might discover we have more in common than he thinks.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#8  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 11, 2011 7:53 am

I notice that the title of that article is, wait for it:

Sarcasm: How to be an Atheist Apologist

Which suggests very strongly that the author is, if anything, taking the piss out of supernaturalist strawman caricatures of atheism.

Tell me, Mick, what part of the word "sarcasm" don't you understand?
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#9  Postby CookieJon » Dec 11, 2011 8:26 am

Haha I didn't detect sarcasm either, despite it being clearly marked in the title. Guess the author and I have more in common than *I* thought.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#10  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Dec 11, 2011 8:34 am

The post is clearly a joke just trying to stir shit up. Not a bad effort as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mick was just posting it as a joke as well. But should use the emoticons in future if he was ;)
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#11  Postby Agrippina » Dec 11, 2011 10:53 am

Also it's about five years old. So nothing new there.
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How to make typographic errors ib thread titles

#12  Postby LucidFlight » Dec 11, 2011 11:05 am

How to make typographic errors ib thread titles

  1. Don't bother to copy and paste the title from the original article.
    Type it out yourself. There's more chance of introducing errors that way.
  2. Try not to be too careful when typing important parts of a thread, say, the thread title.
  3. Don't spell check what you have just written.
  4. Don't bother reading what you've just written. Just post it already.
  5. Have you posted it already? Greeeaaaat...

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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#13  Postby Mick » Dec 11, 2011 2:30 pm

Lowder was being facetious, of course. however he is critical towards village atheists, and so I suspect there is some underlying seriousness to this post in some degree or another. He takes the case for theism seriously as well as the case for Jesus' resurrection, and in fact I have seen him criticize his fellow scholarly atheists quite a bit. Skeptics should take note.
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
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Re: How to make typographic errors ib thread titles

#14  Postby Regina » Dec 11, 2011 2:57 pm

LucidFlight wrote:How to make typographic errors ib thread titles

  1. Don't bother to copy and paste the title from the original article.
    Type it out yourself. There's more chance of introducing errors that way.
  2. Try not to be too careful when typing important parts of a thread, say, the thread title.
  3. Don't spell check what you have just written.
  4. Don't bother reading what you've just written. Just post it already.
  5. Have you posted it already? Greeeaaaat...

Image

But is it a typo? Mick is the resident language expert, after all. He might know more than the average member...
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#15  Postby Rumraket » Dec 11, 2011 5:38 pm

Mick wrote:Lowder was being facetious, of course. however he is critical towards village atheists, and so I suspect there is some underlying seriousness to this post in some degree or another. He takes the case for theism seriously as well as the case for Jesus' resurrection, and in fact I have seen him criticize his fellow scholarly atheists quite a bit. Skeptics should take note.

Noted... now what?
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#16  Postby Paul » Dec 11, 2011 5:51 pm

Mick wrote:Lowder was being facetious, of course. however he is critical towards village atheists, and so I suspect there is some underlying seriousness to this post in some degree or another. He takes the case for theism seriously as well as the case for Jesus' resurrection, and in fact I have seen him criticize his fellow scholarly atheists quite a bit. Skeptics should take note.


What do you think "village atheist" means Mick? Do you think it is pejorative?
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#17  Postby Tero » Dec 11, 2011 6:02 pm

It really irritates me when message board software does not allow the first poster to fix spelling. Misspelling should not be a deadly sin.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#18  Postby Regina » Dec 11, 2011 6:08 pm

Tero wrote:It really irritates me when message board software does not allow the first poster to fix spelling. Misspelling should not be a deadly sin.

Does it not? I seem to remember that other phpBB boards have that option...I haven't checked it out here, though.
But apart from that, Mick really can't be bothered.
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They don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.

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Re: How tp b an Athiest apology?

#19  Postby Animavore » Dec 11, 2011 6:12 pm

Tero wrote:It really irritates me when message board software does not allow the first poster to fix spelling. Misspelling should not be a deadly sin.

:this:
With regard to heretics two points must be observed (heretic and Church).. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death.

- Aquinas.
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Re: How tp be an Atheist apologist?

#20  Postby Nebogipfel » Dec 11, 2011 6:52 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:Lowder was being facetious, of course. however he is critical towards village atheists, and so I suspect there is some underlying seriousness to this post in some degree or another. He takes the case for theism seriously as well as the case for Jesus' resurrection, and in fact I have seen him criticize his fellow scholarly atheists quite a bit. Skeptics should take note.

Noted... now what?

We point out the logs in the theist apologists' eyes.
Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion
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