Is our world a simulation?

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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#321  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 10, 2019 9:09 pm

Been a while, but it's demanding a place at the table:

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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#322  Postby hackenslash » Nov 10, 2019 9:26 pm

aufbahrung wrote:Obviously using a word like 'salad' to dismiss a credible alternative to the common mans inderstanding of reality is the top echelon in argument if it wasn't a nirvana fallacy built on kettle logic.


At what point did it become credible? Perhaps you missed the bit about falsifiability and the credibility of ontology?

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the possibility of something has to be demonstrated. We don't simply accept something as possible based on the fact that it hasn't been shown to be impossible. There may be constraints to the possibility of something based on factors we aren't aware of.

Worse still, your acceptance of a given 'hypothesis' (an appellation which definitely doesn't apply here) is pretty much the epitome of a fully formal fallacy; affirming the consequent.

Happy to break this down for you in case logic isn't your thing.
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Re: And Good Fucking Riddance

#323  Postby hackenslash » Nov 10, 2019 9:31 pm

Spearthrower wrote:This is the sum total of 'support' you've provided for your claims:


aufbahrung wrote:Because I see the simulation hypothesis as the best explanation for the world as experienced intelligent design cannot be thrown out with the dishwater of religious creationism.


The best explanation for the world.

Question already asked: for the world what? Do you mean for the world's existence? Do you mean for the properties found in the world? Do you mean something else?

Point already made to you by numerous people: the simulation hypothesis isn't an explanation, no one who knows anything about it would suggest otherwise.

You seem to think the Matrix is a documentary.


It's interesting that this is the same language used by cdesign proponentsists in their defence of cretinism, no?
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Re: And Good Fucking Riddance

#324  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 10, 2019 10:40 pm

hackenslash wrote:
It's interesting that this is the same language used by cdesign proponentsists in their defence of cretinism, no?


I often wonder what effect they had on the current parlous state of fake news, false equivalence, and abject failure to distinguish between what can be said to be fact and what we might prefer to be true.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#325  Postby aufbahrung » Nov 11, 2019 5:47 am

Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?
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Re: And Good Fucking Riddance

#326  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 11, 2019 5:47 am

Spearthrower wrote:I often wonder what effect they had on the current parlous state of fake news, false equivalence, and abject failure to distinguish between what can be said to be fact and what we might prefer to be true.


I give you, as an object lesson:

There are various forms of social stratification such as class, race, sexual orientation, age, religion, creed, disability, and gender, which are included in the consideration of intersectional feminism and its social and cultural effects. The purpose of intersectionality as a theory is to identify how overlapping categories of identity impact individuals and institutions, and take these relationships into account when working to promote social and political equity. While the theory began as an exploration of the oppression of women of color within society, today the analysis has expanded to include many more aspects of social identity. Intersectionality may also be related to the term triple oppression, which engages with similar themes.

Intersectionality has been critiqued as being ambiguous and open-ended. As it is based in standpoint theory, critics say the focus on subjective experiences can lead to contradictions and the inability to identify common causes of oppression.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

At first blush, this has nothing to do with what aufbahrung is rattling on about -- ontology and what-have-you. It's not as if there is no evidence of social inequality, and people find a need for something to write about. Everything we write here is about something, except in the cases of rambling diatribes with which we cannot connect, intersect, and genuflect.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#327  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 11, 2019 5:49 am

aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?


OK, now I see what your problem is. What would you substitute for "profit motive"? With God out of the picture, who's there to take care of us and pursue the cause of justice? Not that this isn't a derail from something (simulation) that was already a derail when you started it. Attention deficit, much?

Nah, not necessarily. But your last derail has been comprehensively shown to be pure shit. Time to move on, eh?
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#328  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 11, 2019 5:57 am

Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists.


And on people who understand metaphor, understand Brexit, and understand English syntax.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#329  Postby aufbahrung » Nov 11, 2019 6:12 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?


OK, now I see what your problem is. What would you substitute for "profit motive"? With God out of the picture, who's there to take care of us and pursue the cause of justice? Not that this isn't a derail from something (simulation) that was already a derail when you started it. Attention deficit, much?

Nah, not necessarily. But your last derail has been comprehensively shown to be pure shit. Time to move on, eh?


I'm OK with the profit motive at the individual level, glorious to be wealthy. Things like Big Pharma should be regulated and embedded within the state apparatus since they will not invest in cures outside a spartan few that brings them easy monies. I'm very much a two systems one state proponent in regards what actually works these days to produce economic growth etc. I am not and have not been a communist for a long time however.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#330  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 11, 2019 6:15 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?


OK, now I see what your problem is. What would you substitute for "profit motive"? With God out of the picture, who's there to take care of us and pursue the cause of justice? Not that this isn't a derail from something (simulation) that was already a derail when you started it. Attention deficit, much?

Nah, not necessarily. But your last derail has been comprehensively shown to be pure shit. Time to move on, eh?


I'm OK with the profit motive at the individual level, glorious to be wealthy. Things like Big Pharma should be regulated and embedded within the state apparatus since they will not invest in cures outside a spartan few that brings them easy monies. I'm very much a two systems one state proponent in regards what actually works these days to produce economic growth etc. I am not and have not been a communist for a long time however.


Is our world a simulation? If so, you can blame the simulators for Big Pharma. Better yet, you could just go back to bed and quit trying to pretend to be thinking about anything specific. This is all going to end up in another pointless thread of yours if you keep it up.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#331  Postby aufbahrung » Nov 11, 2019 6:26 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?


OK, now I see what your problem is. What would you substitute for "profit motive"? With God out of the picture, who's there to take care of us and pursue the cause of justice? Not that this isn't a derail from something (simulation) that was already a derail when you started it. Attention deficit, much?

Nah, not necessarily. But your last derail has been comprehensively shown to be pure shit. Time to move on, eh?


I'm OK with the profit motive at the individual level, glorious to be wealthy. Things like Big Pharma should be regulated and embedded within the state apparatus since they will not invest in cures outside a spartan few that brings them easy monies. I'm very much a two systems one state proponent in regards what actually works these days to produce economic growth etc. I am not and have not been a communist for a long time however.


Is our world a simulation? If so, you can blame the simulators for Big Pharma. Better yet, you could just go back to bed and quit trying to pretend to be thinking about anything specific. This is all going to end up in another pointless thread of yours if you keep it up.


As I say, need to spend a few weeks to collect my thoughts on the subject of the simulation hypothesis - maybe check out a few youtubes on the matter(nothing heavy - matrix level discussions will set my thinking head off) and try to bring it all into focus to take this thread forwards.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#332  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 11, 2019 6:58 am

aufbahrung wrote:
As I say, need to spend a few weeks to collect my thoughts on the subject of the simulation hypothesis - maybe check out a few youtubes on the matter(nothing heavy - matrix level discussions will set my thinking head off) and try to bring it all into focus to take this thread forwards.


Those migrants who perished in the trailer of a refrigerated lorry in Essex? Was that the fault of Big Pharma? All the other bad shit happening? Are those simulation "errors"? Would nothing bad ever happen if the (benevolent) simulators could get their stuff right? Why would you bother trying to unlimber your "thinking head" in order to wibble about such shit? Another special snowflake maundering about all the bad stuff going on. What you should try is connecting the simulation hypothesis to secular humanism. That'll keep ya busy.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: And Good Fucking Riddance

#333  Postby GrahamH » Nov 11, 2019 8:46 am

aufbahrung wrote:Quantum computing should provide evidence. I don't know how but it should with all its computing powers. With evidence my belief will become fact.

This exemplifies the misunderstanding of simulation.

How could a simulation of quantum computing provide evidence of simulation?
Even supposing the simulation is running on quantum computers, or something vastly faster, or slower, the simulated physics those machines produce cannot be superior to the real physics of a real world. Quantum Supremacy is impossible within the simulated world relative to the real world because it can only be realised by the real world physics through an inherently inefficient process.

The other aspect of simulation that seems to have been overlooked is that the inefficiency of simulation is usually addressed by not simulating any unnecessary detail. If you want to run a virtual machine on your PC that will not be a gate level, transistor level or electron level physics simulation. it will be at a functional level of machine instructions and logical units. In a virtual world the game engine doesn't render the bits that are not in view of a player. It tracks enough detail to ensure some level of consistency when a player looks.
Why do you think that?
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#334  Postby aufbahrung » Nov 11, 2019 9:29 am

I've written something in the margins. Three weeks and I shall return to the subject...
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#335  Postby Fallible » Nov 11, 2019 11:51 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

OK, now I see what your problem is. What would you substitute for "profit motive"? With God out of the picture, who's there to take care of us and pursue the cause of justice? Not that this isn't a derail from something (simulation) that was already a derail when you started it. Attention deficit, much?

Nah, not necessarily. But your last derail has been comprehensively shown to be pure shit. Time to move on, eh?


I'm OK with the profit motive at the individual level, glorious to be wealthy. Things like Big Pharma should be regulated and embedded within the state apparatus since they will not invest in cures outside a spartan few that brings them easy monies. I'm very much a two systems one state proponent in regards what actually works these days to produce economic growth etc. I am not and have not been a communist for a long time however.


Is our world a simulation? If so, you can blame the simulators for Big Pharma. Better yet, you could just go back to bed and quit trying to pretend to be thinking about anything specific. This is all going to end up in another pointless thread of yours if you keep it up.


As I say, need to spend a few weeks to collect my thoughts on the subject of the simulation hypothesis - maybe check out a few youtubes on the matter(nothing heavy - matrix level discussions will set my thinking head off) and try to bring it all into focus to take this thread forwards.


:rofl:
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#336  Postby Thommo » Nov 11, 2019 11:54 am

Fallible wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:As I say, need to spend a few weeks to collect my thoughts on the subject of the simulation hypothesis - maybe check out a few youtubes on the matter(nothing heavy - matrix level discussions will set my thinking head off) and try to bring it all into focus to take this thread forwards.


:rofl:


Sounds a bit lowbrow to me.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#337  Postby BlackBart » Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm

aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?

Focus aufbahrung. The topic is is the universe a simulation. You're not being taken seriously as it is without being distracted by trivia that enters your field of vision.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#338  Postby aufbahrung » Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm

BlackBart wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:Storm is right about big pharma. Profit motive is everything. Lots of drugs that have 51/49 brexit success rations classed as wild successes like brexit. Althought that metaphor will be lost on literalists. Some drugs do work but so do some natuaral remedies. Ginko Biloba is good when combined with Ginseng. But Big Pharma using its clout to shut down trade in natural remedies. Not using its clout to shut down the sugar industry is it?

Focus aufbahrung. The topic is is the universe a simulation. You're not being taken seriously as it is without being distracted by trivia that enters your field of vision.


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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#339  Postby BlackBart » Nov 11, 2019 1:31 pm

When you have nothing, waffle.
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Re: Is our world a simulation?

#340  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 11, 2019 1:42 pm

aufbahrung wrote:As I say, need to spend a few weeks to collect my thoughts on the subject of the simulation hypothesis - maybe check out a few youtubes on the matter(nothing heavy - matrix level discussions will set my thinking head off) and try to bring it all into focus to take this thread forwards.



So you're sure it's right. So sure are you that it's right that you think all knowledge is just hanging around waiting to be overthrown by the belief you possess and are certain of...

But you haven't even spent a few weeks collecting your thoughts on the subject, and you're going to do your research on YT.

Basically, you believe in nonsense for shit reasons.

We guessed.
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