I'm currently writing a big epic prog rock song about how I tried to leave Christianity as a kid, what it felt like, the struggle for your own mind when it feels like you are being gaslighted because the whole damn thing just seems like another story that you can't see any literal truth in at all.

If anyone feels like sharing their story and is comfortable with me turning it into lyrics, or just how they felt leaving a religion I would welcome the input. If anyone feels like they would want to contribute musically to a prog rock song of that theme via email etc, that would be cool too. Again If any one wants to contribute to the thread but not be a part of the project, just let me know you would rather I don't take inspiration in your post.

I find it difficult to put listenable lyrics to a personal experience and make it sound good. I get lost in wanting to make words rhyme but also not sound cheesy. e.g. Illusional, delusional. The melody and structure of the song is normally ok, just the words let me down...

Good luck.

Sorry, I've never had a religion, but I'm very interested to see how you get on.

If I'm honest I don't remember ever believing. They try and teach you the Bible right after they tell you that Santa isn't real. I called bullshit immediately. I think I sat down and read Genesis through to the end of Joshua by myself without any supervision or clarification. God seemed like a massive vindictive bastard. If anyone remembers Ulysses 31, a cartoon that was basically The Odyssey and Existentialism in space, you know for kids. Those two events were enough for me to think it was all bollocks as a kid.

Birds of a feather, I never believed a word of it. It was bullshit on the face of it, and I've never really trusted people who claim to believe it. I figure it's so obviously, stupidly fake that anyone saying it was true was scamming you.

laklak wrote:Birds of a feather, I never believed a word of it. It was bullshit on the face of it, and I've never really trusted people who claim to believe it. I figure it's so obviously, stupidly fake that anyone saying it was true was scamming you.

That's me 99%, with the addition that I do think some people genuinely believe, though very few, and not the ones who would try and convince others. I think to the genuine believer it is a deeply personal, private thing, that they do not talk about much, the behaviour of organised religion embarrasses them.

Strange that some that have never believed seem to have so much knowledge of the subjective experience and intent of believers. I've been on both sides of this, and most genuine believers are not scammers, they do talk about it, and mostly they're not embarrassed, as they manage to reframe the embarrassing bits so that their cognitive dissonance protects them.

The embarrassment comes afterwards, when you see it all for what it is.

I remember sitting in the corner. Under a spotlight. Crying. Trying to keep up.

I've said to much.

I've been on both sides of this, and most genuine believers are not scammers, they do talk about it, and mostly they're not embarrassed

I suspect there are plenty of people who do not really believe what they profess to believe, they like to gather together in groups, go to meetings, and prop up each others beliefs, seeking reassurance and safety in numbers, feeling guilty about their own doubts and imagining others do not feel the same. This is not just a religious phenomena. Someone who is quiet about their beliefs seems to me to be far more likely to be sincere.

On the original topic, I think a good ingredient of the song would be the effort to try and sustain failing faith by increased attendance and more talking about it, more loudly declaring it to be true until it sounded too hollow to even echo back. Build a lyric around that?

Animavore wrote:I remember sitting in the corner. Under a spotlight. Crying. Trying to keep up.

I've said to much.

One thing I have heard referred to (usually indirectly) by so many is that what makes the catholic church such a nice place to leave, is the massive burden of shame that you leave behind.

There's another ingredient for the song, the conflict between the feelings of guilt at leaving, and the relief of not having shame imposed on you for unrealistic things.

zulumoose wrote:

Animavore wrote:I remember sitting in the corner. Under a spotlight. Crying. Trying to keep up.

I've said to much.

One thing I have heard referred to (usually indirectly) by so many is that what makes the catholic church such a nice place to leave, is the massive burden of shame that you leave behind.

I dunno. I never took it too seriously. I used to make up sins for confession then pretend to do my penance (how would they know if I said enough Our Father's and Hail Mary's?). When I left I walked away with a bag of cash. I felt no shame.

Suckers.

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young

zulumoose wrote:

I've been on both sides of this, and most genuine believers are not scammers, they do talk about it, and mostly they're not embarrassed

I suspect there are plenty of people who do not really believe what they profess to believe, they like to gather together in groups, go to meetings, and prop up each others beliefs, seeking reassurance and safety in numbers, feeling guilty about their own doubts and imagining others do not feel the same. This is not just a religious phenomena. Someone who is quiet about their beliefs seems to me to be far more likely to be sincere.

A spot of 'no true scotsman' fallacy there!

In the Anglican church, of course there are huge numbers that don't really believe it, as there's no pressure on people to believe anything at all. There are even atheist bishops. But in the evangelical Christian church it's a very different matter. There may be some that are just in it for the friendly club aspects, but they're very few, very obvious, and they tend not to stay long. Evangelical churches are extremely uncomfortable places for people that aren't genuinely into it.

Whether they'd actually put their lives on the line and be martyred for their faith is a different matter, of course, and not something that's put to the test very often in the West.

electricwhiteboy wrote:If anyone feels like sharing their story and is comfortable with me turning it into lyrics, or just how they felt leaving a religion I would welcome the input.

To answer the original question, it felt brilliant. Like being born again, and I use the phrase quite deliberately.

It was a huge release, a relief, a relaxation, a complete unburdening.

Ironically, it was many of the things the evangelicals claim will happen during a conversion to their religion.

If any of those words are helpful for your lyrics, use them with my blessing. I can probably come up with a few more if I dive back into the memories of how it was, but it was 30 years ago now.

I remember lying in bed at night weighing up the possibility of perdition versus the freedom of my thoughts. It was something of a relief to just let go. In the end I had to admit I just didn't believe.

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young

it's been done you plagiarist you

One seminal event for me was when the fucking old biddy teaching impressionable youngsters in SUnday schoolcame out and said the people in Alaska must have been awfully wicked....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Alaska_earthquake

I just unloaded on her ( I was monitoring the class to humour my parents ) ....what kind of ignorant cunt would say that when a city was razed and 139 people dead ....TO A CLASS OF KIDS.!!!!!....

That fucking cesspit never saw me again and eventually my father who was kirk elder and big time into it came to me later in his 80s and said I was correct about the whole religion thing ...he had left the place in disgust .....just took a few decades to wake up to it.

That went a long way to heal some festering resentment at such medieval crap being piled on me when I was young....fuck 3 times a week and then during summer break ......

I think most get by the crap along with the tooth fairy and St Nick

Better to leave as a kid than an adult perhaps: (although, of course, better late than never)

TopCat wrote:A spot of 'no true scotsman' fallacy there!

Well I am careful always to state that such things are my personal opinion, since they are founded on personal experience and observation, and thus subject to bias. I find it very annoying when believers claim that all atheists are just in denial of what they know to be the truth, it wouldn't be such an issue if such claims were framed as personal opinion instead of baseless assertion.

Never believed but was forced to go to sunday school and bible class in a protestant church in Edinburgh where I was thrown out at 13 for asking too many questions and was told I did not have the faith whatever that was? Glad to say the church is now closed.