Ratskep on Atheism+

Aern Rakesh · **#21** by **Aern Rakesh** » Aug 24, 2012 12:38 pm

Animavore wrote:I think it's some flavour enhancer.

That's what keeps going through my mind, which is why I finally had to ask.

Animavore · **#22** by **Animavore** » Aug 24, 2012 12:39 pm

Nora_Leonard wrote:
Animavore wrote:I think it's some flavour enhancer.

That's what keeps going through my mind, which is why I finally had to ask.

Wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_media

Aern Rakesh · **#23** by **Aern Rakesh** » Aug 24, 2012 12:45 pm

Animavore wrote:
Nora_Leonard wrote:
Animavore wrote:I think it's some flavour enhancer.

That's what keeps going through my mind, which is why I finally had to ask.

Wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_media

Ah. Ta, Ani. I'm so far behind the times.

Bella Fortuna · **#24** by **Bella Fortuna** » Aug 24, 2012 1:32 pm

orpheus wrote:
byofrcs wrote:A+ ?

Meh, I'm going to start a group called A# - A sharp. More brighter than brights.

Are you with me ?

I'll go you one better. A##. Slogan: "That's what you should B."

I C what you did there...

Onyx8 · **#25** by **Onyx8** » Aug 24, 2012 1:32 pm

Oh no, a schism, a rift in atheism. Now there are some people who don't believe in gods and think other things too.

Oh, wait...

orpheus · **#26** by **orpheus** » Aug 24, 2012 1:59 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:
orpheus wrote:
byofrcs wrote:A+ ?

Meh, I'm going to start a group called A# - A sharp. More brighter than brights.

Are you with me ?

I'll go you one better. A##. Slogan: "That's what you should B."

I C what you did there...

Skinny Puppy · **#27** by **Skinny Puppy** » Aug 24, 2012 2:03 pm

I quite like it! :cheers:

We could have:

• Our own place to meet like a special building for example

• We could say/sing certain pre-written things like uh, hims (and hers)

• We could all meet (virtually) say... on Sundays

• We could institute penalties for offenders who are guilty of blasphemy against our cause

• We could have a few selected people that will forgive us if we transgress any of the rules

• We could have a place where we “confess” our sins against the ideals of the movement

• We could have one head person that speaks for us and gives us commandments (rules)

• We would get our guidance from the head person in whom all wisdom would dwelleth

I think it’s a great idea and I can’t think of anything in the world that would be comparable to it. :think:

byofrcs · **#28** by **byofrcs** » Aug 24, 2012 2:10 pm

..
• Taxes, we get given loads of taxes or at least loads of tax breaks.
• We keep all our profits and can spend it on art, travel and booze.
..

John P. M. · **#29** by **John P. M.** » Aug 24, 2012 2:15 pm

From the article:

Atheism had become - perhaps it always was - a bolthole for misogyny. Worse, she wrote, "I don’t feel safe as a woman in this community – and I feel less safe than I do as a woman in science, or a woman in gaming, or hell, as a woman walking down the fucking sidewalk."

This... is this an american thing? :scratch:

Not the misogyny, but atheist communities like this? Maybe it's that I'm not part of an 'atheist community' myself. Well - short of being a member here.

I'd think there'd be atheists present when she's doing science, when she's gaming, and when she's walking down the 'fucking sidewalk' too. This article makes it sound like there are these groups of nerdy atheists cooped up in dank basements, being all atheistic and misogynistic(!), and that she feels free of the latter when she gets out of that basement and out on the street. I think perhaps some fresh air and a wider perspective would be good.

Also, I think people should realize that being an atheist is not an antidote for being an asshole. It's just a view on proposed gods. I may be a cool, decent guy who also happens to be an atheist, but you shouldn't bank on it because I'm an atheist. Gather a group of any interest or disinterest(!), and you'll find some assholes there.

I'm sure you could gather some atheists under an umbrella of equality and humanism and so forth, and exclude members who didn't adhere to a certain code of conduct, but it wouldn't be 'atheism', + or otherwise. It would be something else - although of course it may include atheism. Sorry about stating the bleedin' obvious, but...

Aern Rakesh · **#30** by **Aern Rakesh** » Aug 24, 2012 2:18 pm

John P. M. wrote:Also, I think people should realize that being an atheist is not an antidote for being an asshole. It's just a view on proposed gods. I may be a cool, decent guy who also happens to be an atheist, but you shouldn't bank on it because I'm an atheist. Gather a group of any interest or disinterest(!), and you'll find some assholes there.

Ironclad · **#31** by **Ironclad** » Aug 24, 2012 2:22 pm

HomerJay wrote:
Let me introduce you to Atheism+, the nascent movement that might be the most exciting thing to hit the world of unbelief since Richard Dawkins teamed up with Christopher Hitchens to tell the world that God was a Delusion and, worse than that, Not Great.

I certainly can't claim to be the sharpest tool in RatSkeps arsenal but surely the sentence above is an oxymoron, or somesuch. No?

Posse Comitatus · **#32** by **Posse Comitatus** » Aug 24, 2012 4:09 pm

So the article says Richard Dawkins criticised the girl who complained about the elevator incident. Anyone have a link to this?

maiforpeace · **#33** by **maiforpeace** » Aug 24, 2012 10:26 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:So the article says Richard Dawkins criticised the girl who complained about the elevator incident. Anyone have a link to this?

Subject: Atheism and Feminism (or, Watson v. Dawkins)

>snip<

Dear Muslima

Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .

And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Richard

>snip<

Imagination Theory · **#34** by **Imagination Theory** » Aug 24, 2012 10:38 pm

John P. M. wrote:From the article:

Atheism had become - perhaps it always was - a bolthole for misogyny. Worse, she wrote, "I don’t feel safe as a woman in this community – and I feel less safe than I do as a woman in science, or a woman in gaming, or hell, as a woman walking down the fucking sidewalk."

This... is this an american thing? Not the misogyny, but atheist communities like this? Maybe it's that I'm not part of an 'atheist community' myself. Well - short of being a member here.

I'd think there'd be atheists present when she's doing science, when she's gaming, and when she's walking down the 'fucking sidewalk' too. This article makes it sound like there are these groups of nerdy atheists cooped up in dank basements, being all atheistic and misogynistic(!), and that she feels free of the latter when she gets out of that basement and out on the street. I think perhaps some fresh air and a wider perspective would be good.

Also, I think people should realize that being an atheist is not an antidote for being an asshole. It's just a view on proposed gods. I may be a cool, decent guy who also happens to be an atheist, but you shouldn't bank on it because I'm an atheist. Gather a group of any interest or disinterest(!), and you'll find some assholes there.

I'm sure you could gather some atheists under an umbrella of equality and humanism and so forth, and exclude members who didn't adhere to a certain code of conduct, but it wouldn't be 'atheism', + or otherwise. It would be something else - although of course it may include atheism. Sorry about stating the bleedin' obvious, but...

I don't even think it is an American thing. I assume they are talking about places like TAM and stuff like that.

CdesignProponentsist · **#35** by **CdesignProponentsist** » Aug 24, 2012 10:41 pm

trubble76 wrote:
amkerman wrote:Awesome. The comments on the site are great too.

I would be interested to hear the case made for why this article is "probably a plant", especially considering the rift that has arisen in "the atheist community" (if there is such a thing) regarding what is seen by some as misogynistic tendencies among the ranks. There are no fewer than 4 threads addressing the issue here on RatSkep.

Are those threads plants too?

Most likely... In fact, I bet Watson is a closet theist who only started the whole thing to cause a rift in the atheist community.

Well played Watson, well played.

Even if we assume there is misogyny throbbing through the ranks of atheism, it still wouldn't get close to the misogyny of theism. It's not even in the same league.

It's misogyny+

Regina · **#36** by **Regina** » Aug 24, 2012 10:46 pm

If atheism is a "bolthole" for misogyny, what are religious groups? Should one join one of those in order to avoid misogyny? :scratch:

Posse Comitatus · **#37** by **Posse Comitatus** » Aug 24, 2012 11:13 pm

maiforpeace wrote:
Posse Comitatus wrote:So the article says Richard Dawkins criticised the girl who complained about the elevator incident. Anyone have a link to this?

Subject: Atheism and Feminism (or, Watson v. Dawkins)

>snip<

Dear Muslima

Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .

And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Richard

>snip<

Whoa. Thanks for that.

It's confusing, this. On the on hand the issues she raises in the video are real issues, on the other I think the anecdote she uses to demonstrate it further (man, elevator, coffee) is a little unfair.

I think no wonder it's caused so much controversy and debate, because its created a situation where she both is and ins't right, and where your response to her reaction to the anecdote gets read as your response to the broader question of misogyny in general (a la Dawkins in the New Statesman article).

Also, I bet the elevator man feels so so shit. Not only has his rejection been broadcast around the world, but he's also been made a byword for all misogyny in atheism. Probably not what you'd bargain for when you ask someone back for coffee (which happens in every hollywood romance - he probably thought, & thought wrongly that he was being sexy and spontaneous like Brad Pitt or something).

Horwood Beer-Master · **#38** by **Horwood Beer-Master** » Aug 24, 2012 11:24 pm

Imagination Theory wrote:...I don't even think it is an American thing. I assume they are talking about places like TAM and stuff like that.

I think a problem with these 'events' like TAM is that the people invited to appear at them very often start to get an inflated sense their own importance amongst 'active' atheists.

I don't think they seem to realise that the vast bulk of 'atheist discourse' (if we can call it that) does not take place at sodding conferences.

Robert_S · **#39** by **Robert_S** » Aug 24, 2012 11:30 pm

Atheism Plus is old hat!

Won't someone please join my new movement: Atheism Double Plus!

pawiz · **#40** by **pawiz** » Aug 24, 2012 11:32 pm

byofrcs wrote:A+ ?

Meh, I'm going to start a group called A# - A sharp. More brighter than brights.

Are you with me ?

Or B Flat

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