Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#41  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 2:07 pm

LIFE wrote:
Andrew4Handel wrote:It doesn't matter what you believe about gods existence.

Either he/she/it exists or doesn't etc.


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I do not understand your answer.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#42  Postby LIFE » Oct 13, 2010 2:25 pm

sanja wrote:
LIFE wrote:
Andrew4Handel wrote:It doesn't matter what you believe about gods existence.

Either he/she/it exists or doesn't etc.


Image

I do not understand your answer.


If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#43  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 2:38 pm

LIFE wrote:
If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.

Are you saying that god-belief is the only cause of such events?
(I do not even think that god-belief is the cause of that event)
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#44  Postby DoctorE » Oct 13, 2010 2:50 pm

Donald Duck lives on the Dark Side of the Moon; He wants us all to quack like ducks, if you don't do as he says he will turn you into pond scum for all eternity.

Those of you who say: I know this Donald Duck thing is not real... you are stupid ADonaldDuckists, not science-e at all
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#45  Postby LIFE » Oct 13, 2010 2:57 pm

sanja wrote:Are you saying that god-belief is the only cause of such events?
(I do not even think that god-belief is the cause of that event)


No, but it is the cause of that event. You don't think islamic fundamentalism is the cause of that event?
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#46  Postby MattHunX » Oct 13, 2010 3:16 pm

LIFE wrote:
sanja wrote:Are you saying that god-belief is the only cause of such events?
(I do not even think that god-belief is the cause of that event)


No, but it is the cause of that event. You don't think islamic fundamentalism is the cause of that event?


This should be good. :popcorn:

I predict a :conspiracy: theory.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#47  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 3:41 pm

LIFE wrote:
No, but it is the cause of that event. You don't think islamic fundamentalism is the cause of that event?

No, I don't.
I think that too much hate against american foreign politics is cause for that event.

I mean, Vatican is "more christian" than America.
nederland is more "sinful" than America.
Sweden is more "infidel-full" than America.

But they striked on America.
Go figure.

(sorry for my lousy english, I hope you will get my point)
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#48  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 3:45 pm

MattHunX wrote:

This should be good. :popcorn:

I predict a :conspiracy: theory.

I love conspiracy theories :mrgreen:
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#49  Postby rJD » Oct 13, 2010 3:48 pm

sanja wrote:I love conspiracy theories :mrgreen:

Then I heartily recommend this book. Not funny at all, in fact a little depressing when you consider how much people want to believe nonsense of all stripes, but really, really interesting.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#50  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 3:48 pm

Though, Life, you didn't answer my question.

Are you saying that god-belief is the only cause of such events?
(it seemed that you claimed that)
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#51  Postby LIFE » Oct 13, 2010 4:01 pm

sanja wrote:Though, Life, you didn't answer my question.

Are you saying that god-belief is the only cause of such events?
(it seemed that you claimed that)


LIFE wrote:
No, but it is the cause of that event. You don't think islamic fundamentalism is the cause of that event?


:D
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#52  Postby sanja » Oct 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Life, than what does this sentence mean:

If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.


?
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#53  Postby Andrew4Handel » Oct 14, 2010 1:31 pm

LIFE wrote:If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.


Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others killed hundreds of millions of people and they didn't believe in god. You could argue that not believing in God caused these atrocities because people couldn't be held accountable for their actions and made up their own new warped moral virtues.


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You seriously want to blame 9/11 on anyone who believes in or speculates about God. Wouldn't you be better blaming Islamic fandamentalism ? Believing in a creator deity doesn't mean you agree with corrosive religious ideas.

But I do like the way you try and use 9/11 as a detterent against peiople speculating about god.

In the same way I'll use Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Jeffrey Dahmer the Columbine and Finland school shootings et al as a warning against not believing in god.... :coffee:

Actually though.. atrocities prove to some people how doomed society would be if we had to just really on the human spirit and values to function.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#54  Postby trubble76 » Oct 14, 2010 1:38 pm

Andrew4Handel wrote:
LIFE wrote:If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.


Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others killed hundreds of millions of people and they didn't believe in god. You could argue that not believing in God caused these atrocities because people couldn't be held accountable for their actions and made up their own new warped moral virtues.


RDBQD00Z.jpg


You seriously want to blame 9/11 on anyone who believes in or speculates about God. Wouldn't you be better blaming Islamic fandamentalism ? Believing in a creator deity doesn't mean you agree with corrosive religious ideas.

But I do like the way you try and use 9/11 as a detterent against peiople speculating about god.

In the same way I'll use Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Jeffrey Dahmer the Columbine and Finland school shootings et al as a warning against not believing in god.... :coffee:

Actually though.. atrocities prove to some people how doomed society would be if we had to just really on the human spirit and values to function.


Yes, the "you're as bad as us" defence. But then atheists don't claim a cast-iron set of morals handed down directly from gawd.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#55  Postby sanja » Oct 14, 2010 2:01 pm

trubble76 wrote:
Yes, the "you're as bad as us" defence.

No, it's "you made a stupid, unsustainable generalisation" remark.

And you also made:

"some A cause B, ergo - all A, and only A, cause B"

logical error.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#56  Postby trubble76 » Oct 14, 2010 2:16 pm

sanja wrote:
trubble76 wrote:
Yes, the "you're as bad as us" defence.

No, it's "you made a stupid, unsustainable generalisation" remark.

And you also made:

"some A cause B, ergo - all A, and only A, cause B"

logical error.


Did I? Where?
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#57  Postby sanja » Oct 14, 2010 2:57 pm

Not "you" personaly.
It's more like "one".

Life's quote sustain that mistake:

If it wouldn't matter events like the one in the picture wouldn't have happened.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#58  Postby Andrew4Handel » Oct 14, 2010 6:55 pm

trubble76 wrote:
Yes, the "you're as bad as us" defence. But then atheists don't claim a cast-iron set of morals handed down directly from gawd.


It wasn't a defence I was just pointing out that it was wrong to try and blame 9/11 on anyone who believed in or speculated about god/s.

I think that the case of 20th century atrocities does prove that we don't need religious belief to behave horrendously and that societies that scrap religion don't neccessarily improve and that it can result in a loss of moral compass.

Life is suggesting that by believing in god your on the road to commiting 9/11 style atrocities. 9/11 was plotted and carried out by a few dozen people. Genocide in the last century involved big swathes of society participating in or ignoring brutality and failing to make decent moral decisions..

I don't see why someone should not be allowed to make up their own mind about god/s without being harangued or abused. that in no way has anything to do with accepting barbaric religious practises.

It's totalitarian to try and ridicule or demean all religious or deist standpoints and not accept peoples ability as individuals to come to a coherent decision on these matters.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#59  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Oct 14, 2010 7:03 pm

Rubbish! When Christians get the hell out of our schools i will stop ridiculing people who pay lip service their crappy organization.

If you support ANY organization (especially financially) that actively opposes equal rights i will criticize your decision. End of story.

Believing in God has nothing to do with it ^.
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Re: Sagan: An atheist is someone who knows there is no god.

#60  Postby virphen » Oct 14, 2010 7:10 pm

Andrew4Handel wrote:
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others killed hundreds of millions of people and they didn't believe in god. You could argue that not believing in God caused these atrocities because people couldn't be held accountable for their actions and made up their own new warped moral virtues.


But that would be idiotic, as clearly holding Christian "moral values" (which in some cases are as warped as is feasibly possible) does not prevent such atrocities taking place, as we've seen in the last few decades.

However both sides do make a mistake. These atrocities can be drawn to a common cause, and it isn't religion or the lack of it. It's dogmatic ideologies.

Religion is merely the most prevalent example of these. But there are some, equally as horrific, that do not touch on the supernatural.

All such ideologies should be distrusted, spurned, and ideally (but it will never happen, humans being what they are) consigned to the dustbin of the history of irrationality.
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