It has come to my attention on another thread that at least a few atheists have beliefs, and this has got me wondering.

What do atheists (you personally, if you're an atheist. If you're not, please, no generalizations) believe in?

(for purposes of the question, Belief= "Confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof without evidentiary support. If you find a reason you believe it other than "because I believe it" it is not a belief)

Also, I have been told (by an atheist) that under some circumstances, belief (as I have defined it above) is necessary.

Is this statement true?

If so, what types of circumstances warrant belief?

What definition of belief and believe in are we using here?

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

amkerman wrote:(for purposes of the question, if it is based on evidence, or if there is evidence to back it up, it is not a belief, but a prediction of the truth.)

Completely false. Belief does not require the absence of evidence. That would be faith.

Stop trying to redefine the terms of the question. It's my question, I get to define the terms.

But if when I say belief, and define it, and you understand my use of the word "belief" to be equivalent to the term you call "faith", that shouldn't stop you from being able to answer the question.

And for the record. Nothing I said was a positive claim that could be regarded as "Completely False". Unless of course, you are claiming that,

"for the purposes of your question, you didn't actually define belief in the manner you did"

If that is your claim, I'll reference you back to my original post and maybe you can glean how I defined "belief" for the purposes of the question.

Are people actually not sure what I mean when I say belief or are people just trying to avoid the question?

Belief:

Confidence in something not susceptible to rigorous proof. Confidence in the truth of something without evidentiary support.

What exactly is the item we are supposed to be believing in?

I think you have mistaken trust for belief (which theists seem to do all the fucking time!).

When I read a paper on a subject that I may not have a great deal of personal knowledge or experience in, I weight the source of the paper, and the level in which it has been peer-reviewed and draw a conclusion as to if I should trust the conclusions presented. Of course, that trust is always conditional based on any further evidence that may be presented.

There is the venacular of "believing" a statement made by a person you are in a conversation with. Again, I think this is a mistaken application of the word, and instead the correct word is again trust. "I trust that my wife loves me", is a perfect example of using trust correctly instead of the common term belief.

As for asking atheists as a group what they blieve in, are you really going there?

amkerman wrote:Are people actually not sure what I mean when I say belief or are people just trying to avoid the question?

Yes, I am not sure what you mean when you say "belief", and no, I am not trying to avoid answering the question.

amkerman wrote:Are people actually not sure what I mean when I say belief or are people just trying to avoid the question?

No, it's a stupid fucking question where you are erecting your own strawmen in order to triumphantly knock them down, while totally obfuscating your true intent...

To use Goldemane's rule of dicourse: Go fuck yourself.

amkerman wrote:Belief:

Confidence in something not susceptible to rigorous proof. Confidence in the truth of something without evidentiary support.

On that basis, I believe that there exists intelligent extra-terrestrial life.

Nebogipfel wrote:

amkerman wrote:Belief:

Confidence in something not susceptible to rigorous proof. Confidence in the truth of something without evidentiary support.

On that basis, I believe that there exists intelligent extra-terrestrial life.

See, I would approach that differently. i would say, "Based on what we know of astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, evolution, etc. I trust that there is a good chance that extra-terrestrial life exists. However, I cannot assert to that fact in any meaningful way, and must await further evidence to state it as any kind of truth."

/pedant

You mean like . . . I believe in love?

Or, I believe I'll have another beer?

I'm an atheist and I believe that Sheffield Wednesday will never win the Premiership in my lifetime. I do know some rather deluded atheists who believe they will.

NamelessFaceless wrote:You mean like . . . I believe in love?

Or, I believe I'll have another beer?

Love has evidence though. Chemicals in the brain and all that. fMRI scans can even show it, and it can be artificially induced even!

I never say, "I believe I'll have another beer." That is too indecisive! I am going to have another beer now damnit!

LarianLeQuella wrote:What exactly is the item we are supposed to be believing in?

I think you have mistaken trust for belief (which theists seem to do all the fucking time!).

There is no "right" answer. There is no item you are "supposed" to be believing in. It is an open question. Answer it anyway you like. I just hope you actually answer it instead of resounding to my responses.

If your understanding of the idea I have labeled "belief" coincides with your understanding of the word "trust" that shouldn't stop you from being able to answer the question. If you define "trust" as "Confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof without evidentiary support" then...

What do you have "trust" in?

When I read a paper on a subject that I may not have a great deal of personal knowledge or experience in, I weight the source of the paper, and the level in which it has been peer-reviewed and draw a conclusion as to if I should trust the conclusions presented. Of course, that trust is always conditional based on any further evidence that may be presented.

Yes. This is obviously not what I am talking about. This "trust" is based on evidence. I'm sure it is clear to you I by now I am talking about, "Confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof without evidentiary support".

There is the venacular of "believing" a statement made by a person you are in a conversation with. Again, I think this is a mistaken application of the word, and instead the correct word is again trust. I trust that my wife loves me, is a perfect example of using trust correctly instead of the common term belief.

As long as when you say "trust" you mean "confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof without evidentiary support" we are on the same page. I have a feeling there is evidentiary support to back up your claim that your wife loves you though, so that wouldn't be "trust" in the sense we are using the word.

As for asking atheists as a group what they blieve in, are you really going there?

Hmmm... did you read my question. I think you'll be able to answer your own question if you do. In case you can't glean the answer though... No. I did not go there.

quisquose wrote:I'm an atheist and I believe that Sheffield Wednesday will never win the Premiership in my lifetime. I do know some rather deluded atheists who believe they will.

Is there evidence on which you base that belief, I mean, has Sheffield Wednesday not won the Premiership in some time? If so, I wouldn't call that a belief, I would call that a prediction.

LarianLeQuella wrote:

NamelessFaceless wrote:You mean like . . . I believe in love?

Or, I believe I'll have another beer?

Love has evidence though. Chemicals in the brain and all that. fMRI scans can even show it, and it can be artificially induced even!

Ok, but since I didn't already know that, doesn't that mean I just "believe?"

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

Why redefine a well established word to mean something else that already has a perfectly appropriate word: faith. This is an obvious trap to get atheists to admit that they don't believe in anything.

It's not a trap. If you define faith as "confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof without evidentiary support" then...

What do you have faith in?

But I'll play along. I believe in a countless number of things, the reason for which there are evidences that supports them. I cannot, off of the top of my head, come up with anything I believe that is not backed up by some evidence.

Huh???

Is the reason that you believe "countless things" because there is evidence? Or is the reason there is evidence for them because you believe in them?

So you can go jumping for joy in your imagined victory that you have determined that atheists don't believe in anything; however the truth will remain what it is.

Quit projecting. It's an honest question. I have no ulterior motives.