Someone should drop Suzie a line and invite her over here so she can see for herself what variety of things non-believers practice in terms of ritual.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-atheists
And inform her that she's in no fucking position to tell atheists what they need and what they don't need to do.

She wants more spectacles. The funerals she attended lack that. If funeral services bore her that much, why does she come in the first place?

I've attended just three funerals: my father's and those of my two best friends, Phil and Gil.

The former was religious (my father was an atheist but my superstitious mother survives him), the second was secular but conducted by a vicar and the third was entirely humanist.

Now, I took part in the latter two ceremonies; that notwithstanding, those events were meaningful celebrations of two wonderful individuals' lives, whereas my father's funeral was a sham. The religious geezer, never having met my dad and knowing nothing about him, just kept on repeating 'my father's house has many mansions'. The only redeeming feature was the music, which I'd chosen and had recorded specially.

As a result, I'm considering becoming a humanist celebrant, but that's another tale - except to say that we need many more!

New Atheism, capitalised "A" .... yawn.

Reading the comments and it's obvious how many people still don't understand the words atheist and agnostic, or refuse to understand more likely.

If I need a funeral service it's only because I'm petty and vain and want everyone to celebrate my life like it was something marginally more meaningful than a droplet in the infinite.

Honestly, if I could, I'd fake my own death and attend it.

Animavore wrote:If I need a funeral service it's only because I'm petty and vain and want everyone to celebrate my life like it was something marginally more meaningful than a droplet in the infinite.

Honestly, if I could, I'd fake my own death and attend it.

It's for the living, not the dead, Animavore.

Blip wrote:

Animavore wrote:If I need a funeral service it's only because I'm petty and vain and want everyone to celebrate my life like it was something marginally more meaningful than a droplet in the infinite.

Honestly, if I could, I'd fake my own death and attend it.

It's for the living, not the dead, Animavore.

I know. Hence my desire to be alive when it happens.

I particularly dislike this bit:

To move many away from religion, atheism has to weave itself into the social fabric and shed its image of dour grumpiness

So weaving oneself into society is some kind of ploy to "move many away from religion"? What bollocks. It assumes that "atheists" somehow reside outside society. One wonders where that might be.

Suzanne Moore wrote:A viable atheism has to... [etc]

The viability of atheism is a consequence of the case for theism being so very weak. If we were faced with overwhelming evidence and sound arguments in support of theism, atheism wouldn't be viable. It's that simple.

I'll concede that theism often makes a spectacle of itself, and not always in an edifying way.

Suzanne Moore wrote:Already, I am revealing a kind of neo-paganism that hardcore rationalist will find unacceptable. But they find most human things unacceptable. For me, not believing in God does not mean one has to forgo poetry, magic, the chaos of ritual, the remaking of shared bonds.

She may find that many of her fellow atheists fail to conform to her strawman "hardcore rationalist" stereotype, and that many share her love of poetry, pagan ritual, and so on. Some even like to walk around picturesque old churches, shock horror.

Matthew Shute wrote:

Suzanne Moore wrote:Already, I am revealing a kind of neo-paganism that hardcore rationalist will find unacceptable. But they find most human things unacceptable. For me, not believing in God does not mean one has to forgo poetry, magic, the chaos of ritual, the remaking of shared bonds.

She may find that many of her fellow atheists fail to conform to her strawman "hardcore rationalist" stereotype, and that many share her love of poetry, pagan ritual, and so on. Some even like to walk around picturesque old churches, shock horror.

I think she's getting atheists mixed up with Vulcans.

Animavore wrote:

Matthew Shute wrote:

Suzanne Moore wrote:Already, I am revealing a kind of neo-paganism that hardcore rationalist will find unacceptable. But they find most human things unacceptable. For me, not believing in God does not mean one has to forgo poetry, magic, the chaos of ritual, the remaking of shared bonds.

She may find that many of her fellow atheists fail to conform to her strawman "hardcore rationalist" stereotype, and that many share her love of poetry, pagan ritual, and so on. Some even like to walk around picturesque old churches, shock horror.

I think she's getting atheists mixed up with Vulcans.

Illogical.

RatSkep needs more ritual

My next funeral will be my own. No one there and after the cremation my ashes to be scattered in my garden. And then
an eternity of pain free non consciousness to look forward to. So much better than anything that life can offer because
no matter how great it is it will eventually end. Death on the other hand is for ever. So embrace it instead of denying it
and when you do you will be as free as it is possible to be. To be free and then to die. Does not get much better than that

then an eternity of pain free non consciousness to look forward to

Half joking, I sometimes make the point that, if I'm not consciousness for/of any of that eternity, it won't seem like long.

Matthew Shute wrote:

then an eternity of pain free non consciousness to look forward to

Half joking, I sometimes make the point that, if I'm not consciousness for/of any of that eternity, it won't seem like long.

I thought about that as a metaphor. When I die everyone who I know who has already died will be in that club. Everyone still alive will be in that club in 100 years. Think about the religious myths concerning joining up with lost loved ones.

Five years ago today my lifelong best friend Mac died.