A Spiritual Component Of Our Existence?

Discussions on UFOs, ghosts, myths etc.

Moderators: Calilasseia, DarthHelmet86, Onyx8

Re: Just a coincidence?

#21  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 8:07 pm

Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Just a coincidence?

#22  Postby Doubtdispelled » Jun 15, 2010 8:08 pm

I think I'm going to have to request a thread split.

:roll:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#23  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2010 8:09 pm

Look, that's just what it's not again. Can you give any examples?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#24  Postby Gallstones » Jun 15, 2010 8:09 pm

falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


There is nothing that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.

All is physical. :levi:
Gallstones
 
Posts: 11911

Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#25  Postby IIzO » Jun 15, 2010 8:17 pm

falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.

2nd try ; what the hell are those physical dimension you are talking about , and why do you think they need to be breached in order for you to have the said experiences ?
I dream a lot , its also possible to have transcendant experiences , and things that look like any out of body experiences....so why are to use a special word for those things and forfeat any inquiry while it's actually just part of the body of experiences people actually have?
Between what i think , what i want to say ,what i believe i say ,what i say , what you want to hear , what you hear ,what you understand...there are lots of possibilities that we might have some problem communicating.But let's try anyway.
Bernard Werber
User avatar
IIzO
 
Posts: 2182

Country: La France , evidement.
France (fr)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#26  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 8:18 pm

Gallstones wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


There is nothing that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.

All is physical. :levi:


It may be that the experience I had adheres to laws of physical dimension yet to be discovered.
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#27  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2010 8:19 pm

I wouldn't have a problem with them being 'unexplained'. It's the slapping on of a nebulous label like it means something specific that bothers me.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Just a coincidence?

#28  Postby IIzO » Jun 15, 2010 8:23 pm

falasha wrote:
Gallstones wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


There is nothing that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.

All is physical. :levi:


It may be that the experience I had adheres to laws of physical dimension yet to be discovered.

That is frigging possible , but we souldn't just jump to conclusion without....you know a bit of experimenting/theorising/verification etc etc... :scratch: ponctual occurences are always hard to interpret. Modern skepticism is all about not jumping on high horses and say whatever we want without any rational reasoning behind it.... :think: but basically we just have no clue about wtf is going on in nature anyway.
Last edited by IIzO on Jun 16, 2010 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Between what i think , what i want to say ,what i believe i say ,what i say , what you want to hear , what you hear ,what you understand...there are lots of possibilities that we might have some problem communicating.But let's try anyway.
Bernard Werber
User avatar
IIzO
 
Posts: 2182

Country: La France , evidement.
France (fr)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#29  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 8:26 pm

IIzO wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


Except you were using the term as a quality of human beings, not an experience.


2nd try; Characteristic of human existence that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.

2nd try ; what the hell are those physical dimension you are talking about , and why do you think they need to be breached in order for you to have the said experiences ?
I dream a lot , its also possible to have transcendant experiences , and things that look like any out of body experiences....so why are to use a special word for those things and forfeat any inquiry while it's actually just part of the body of experiences people actually have?


Many people have had the same kind of experience I had so you are correct. However, when I was watching the scenario play out in the ambulance I was looking from above them. I was watching the backs of their heads.
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#30  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 8:34 pm

Fallible wrote:I wouldn't have a problem with them being 'unexplained'. It's the slapping on of a nebulous label like it means something specific that bothers me.



Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#31  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2010 8:40 pm

Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".


Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. Across two threads you've been unable to provide a coherent definition of 'spiritual', and yet you use it liberally, even claiming that others 'realise' that they possess this apparently characteristicless quality. Stop going about the forum blithely labelling anyone who doesn't immediately accept your empty claims. So far, all I've been doing is attempting to extract some kind of meaningful definition out of you, so don't apply your pre-conceived notions to me, please. It's quite rude.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#32  Postby Gallstones » Jun 15, 2010 8:49 pm

Gallstones wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
falasha wrote:Spirituality is not a physical attribute so it is not quantifiable or testable. Since it does not adhere to scientific investigative techniques, New Athiests have determined it does not exist. I have had experiences that I have labeled "spiritual" for want of a better word. Since I was not raised in religion, I have never attributed it to some god.


OK so you've told us what spirituality is not, but not what it is. Instead you have jumped to 'atheists have determined it does not exist'. How can we determine any such thing, and more importantly how can you claim that women realise we are spiritual, if you won't even describe it?

ETA: By the way, I did go and read that thread you mentioned. Nowhere in it did you define 'spiritual'. You simply said that it is a nebulous term (I agree completely), and then provided an anecdote about an OBE as evidence.


MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


falasha, no one--male or female--realizes any such thing. They interpret particular experiences as "spiritual" and then ascribe the same characterization to any similar experiences. "Spirituality" is nothing more than proactive confirmation bias.

Can you tell us how you tell the difference between what is spiritual and what is ordinary?

    :this:
Gallstones
 
Posts: 11911

Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#33  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 8:51 pm

Fallible wrote:
Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".


Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. Across two threads you've been unable to provide a coherent definition of 'spiritual', and yet you use it liberally, even claiming that others 'realise' that they possess this apparently characteristicless quality. Stop going about the forum blithely labelling anyone who doesn't immediately accept your empty claims. So far, all I've been doing is attempting to extract some kind of meaningful definition out of you, so don't apply your pre-conceived notions to me, please. It's quite rude.


I apologize. Also, I provided a definition.

Do you not know that the rise of athiests after the book The God Delusion was written are called New Athiests?
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#34  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 9:00 pm

Gallstones wrote:
Gallstones wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
falasha wrote:Spirituality is not a physical attribute so it is not quantifiable or testable. Since it does not adhere to scientific investigative techniques, New Athiests have determined it does not exist. I have had experiences that I have labeled "spiritual" for want of a better word. Since I was not raised in religion, I have never attributed it to some god.


OK so you've told us what spirituality is not, but not what it is. Instead you have jumped to 'atheists have determined it does not exist'. How can we determine any such thing, and more importantly how can you claim that women realise we are spiritual, if you won't even describe it?

ETA: By the way, I did go and read that thread you mentioned. Nowhere in it did you define 'spiritual'. You simply said that it is a nebulous term (I agree completely), and then provided an anecdote about an OBE as evidence.


MORE women than men realize we have a spiritual component to our existence. How about this as a definition; Experience that does not adhere to laws of physical dimension.


falasha, no one--male or female--realizes any such thing. They interpret particular experiences as "spiritual" and then ascribe the same characterization to any similar experiences. "Spirituality" is nothing more than proactive confirmation bias.

Can you tell us how you tell the difference between what is spiritual and what is ordinary?

    :this:


But I absolutely did not have preconceived bias before I had this experience. I was not religious and did not believe in god. It is not ordinary to look down upon one's own body with the feeling that it was not "me".
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#35  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2010 9:00 pm

falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".


Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. Across two threads you've been unable to provide a coherent definition of 'spiritual', and yet you use it liberally, even claiming that others 'realise' that they possess this apparently characteristicless quality. Stop going about the forum blithely labelling anyone who doesn't immediately accept your empty claims. So far, all I've been doing is attempting to extract some kind of meaningful definition out of you, so don't apply your pre-conceived notions to me, please. It's quite rude.


I apologize. Also, I provided a definition.

Do you not know that the rise of athiests after the book The God Delusion was written are called New Athiests?


Do you know how many of the people here became atheists after reading the book The God Delusion and how many have either always been atheists or have been atheists since well before the book The God Delusion?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Just a coincidence?

#36  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 9:06 pm

Fallible wrote:
falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".


Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. Across two threads you've been unable to provide a coherent definition of 'spiritual', and yet you use it liberally, even claiming that others 'realise' that they possess this apparently characteristicless quality. Stop going about the forum blithely labelling anyone who doesn't immediately accept your empty claims. So far, all I've been doing is attempting to extract some kind of meaningful definition out of you, so don't apply your pre-conceived notions to me, please. It's quite rude.


I apologize. Also, I provided a definition.

Do you not know that the rise of athiests after the book The God Delusion was written are called New Athiests?


Do you know how many of the people here became atheists after reading the book The God Delusion and how many have either always been atheists or have been atheists since well before the book The God Delusion?
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#37  Postby Gallstones » Jun 15, 2010 9:11 pm

shh wrote:
falasha wrote:Spirituality is not a physical attribute so it is not quantifiable or testable. Since it does not adhere to scientific investigative techniques, New Athiests have determined it does not exist.

I'm not even a materialist, let alone a New Atheist.
I have had experiences that I have labeled "spiritual" for want of a better word.
Ok, you realise we still don't know what you mean when you say "spiritual" though?
Since I was not raised in religion, I have never attributed it to some god.
I have a lucky deck of cards, and since I'm not religious, I've never attributed it to some God either.
It's just standard magic. :whistle:

Fallible wrote:Self-actualisation is the act of realising one's full potential.
Problem is I don't see any way of defining "full potential" that isn't ideologically based, which would mean that "full potential"="accepted behavior".
It's believed to be theoretically possible to become fully self-actualised, but something which does not seem to have been achieved by any one individual. Rather, self-actualisation is a process of continued 'positive' growth in the organism, 'positive' meaning leading to the enhancement of the organism. Some theories refer to the 'actualising tendency' - a condition present in all life. Basically, according to this theory, we are all born with the tendency to strive to achieve the best we can for ourselves, whatever our situation. The example of a potato in the cellar is often used to illustrate this tendency. Even without the optimum conditions, for example in a dark, soil-less, waterless cellar, a potato will sprout shoots in an attempt to achieve its full potential.
Again, we have the same problem with "positive" and "enhancement" as "full potential".
These are all value terms, anyone we say has achieved their full potential through positive enhancement, is really just someone we admire.
This seems to hold up when people put forward examples of self actualized individuals, it's always people who the person admires, and even in Maslow's hierarchy, the self actualized individual only displays attributes that have been considered desirable to his social group.
This always strikes me as being a sanitized politically correct version of Will to Power.
The problem with the potato analogy is that no one judges which shoots are the good kind.


Selecting, Cutting and Handling Potato Seed :whistle:

It's still all physical. :levi:
Gallstones
 
Posts: 11911

Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#38  Postby falasha » Jun 15, 2010 9:12 pm

I do not know when some atheists became athiests. But it is not my label, it is the label given by popular culture. Look around at blogs and you will see this title is becoming the norm.
Why do you lump all theists together?
falasha
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 223
Female

Country: U.S.A.
Israel (il)
Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#39  Postby Gallstones » Jun 15, 2010 9:15 pm

falasha wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Why? New Athiests label everything that does not meet their criteria as "Woo".


Why? Because it doesn't mean anything. Across two threads you've been unable to provide a coherent definition of 'spiritual', and yet you use it liberally, even claiming that others 'realise' that they possess this apparently characteristicless quality. Stop going about the forum blithely labelling anyone who doesn't immediately accept your empty claims. So far, all I've been doing is attempting to extract some kind of meaningful definition out of you, so don't apply your pre-conceived notions to me, please. It's quite rude.


I apologize. Also, I provided a definition.

Do you not know that the rise of athiests after the book The God Delusion was written are called New Athiests?


Es macht nichts falasha. I was atheist and didn't even know Richard Dawkins existed or read his books. :shock:

I'm an old atheist, the practical and utilitarian type. There was no popular atheist culture when I came to it. :whisper:
Last edited by Gallstones on Jun 15, 2010 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gallstones
 
Posts: 11911

Print view this post

Re: Just a coincidence?

#40  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2010 9:16 pm

falasha wrote:I do not know when some atheists became athiests. But it is not my label, it is the label given by popular culture. Look around at blogs and you will see this title is becoming the norm.


I don't need to look around blogs to know about New Atheists. My point is that you label atheists as New Atheists without first establishing that they belong to this group.

Why do you lump all theists together?


What the hell are you talking about? I do no such thing.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Paranormal & Supernatural

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest