falasha wrote:Twistor, the laws of nature that we currently understand would definitely not account for this experience.

How would you know?

But thousands and thousands of people are saying that these things happen to them. Therefore, we do not know ALL of the laws of nature.

Non sequitur.

Instead of relegating these experiences to delusion or supernatural, why not accept their existence and investigate?

Again with the straw man arguments. It appears that your apology to me was worthless.

People should be aware that falasha has also discussed her interesting experience in this thread, where I and other members have made reference to scientific research on the nature of OOBE's. Just FYI.

Shrunk wrote:People should be aware that falasha has also discussed her interesting experience in this thread, where I and other members have made reference to scientific research on the nature of OOBE's. Just FYI.

OK, thanks, hadn't seen that one !

twistor59 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:People should be aware that falasha has also discussed her interesting experience in this thread, where I and other members have made reference to scientific research on the nature of OOBE's. Just FYI.

OK, thanks, hadn't seen that one !

The spirits tell me that you may regret saying thanks.

I’d like to point out that in that other thread Falasha in her first telling of the ambulance ride said that she could only see the backs of heads of the paramedics while having a conversation with her mother to calm her down.

Then after I asked this…

Could it be that the reason you can only remember the backs of heads is that you didn’t really see it so have no memory of faces? Only put together a false memory from what you may have heard either during the ride or later from you mother.

…Falasha’s story changed to actually seeing one of the paramedics faces.

I remember the look on a paramedics face when he turned around to confront my mother. It was impatient disgust and it shut my mother up.

Like Twistor59 pointed out that her out of body experience is the visual part and this could very well be a false memory that was created as a visual to go along with what Falasha could hear in the ambulance, Falasha is not having any of it. She does not seem to understand that you don’t need to have seen something to have a visual memory.

These visual memories that do not come from actually seeing something would not automatically or always be called false memories, we visualize scenes from novels, or stories told to us. Radio worked very well in it’s early years because people could visualize what was going on in radio plays and live broadcasts. But if a person believes that the memory consists of what they actually saw then it is a false memory.

Falasha never makes clear the reason/s for her initial or following two weeks of unconsciousness. Was it drug induced because of the pain of her facial lacerations, or caused by an injury to the brain? She hasn’t said as far as I know that she was in a coma, but if that was the case there are different levels of comatose states ranging from partial states where the person can react to sensory stimuli to states of total absence of brain activity.

In any other that the most drastic states of drug induced unconsciousness or injury caused coma it is possible for people to hear what is going around them, and as has been said before the brain tries to put together a visual image of the auditory stimuli that it receives.

falasha wrote:
But I absolutely did not have preconceived bias before I had this experience. I was not religious and did not believe in god. It is not ordinary to look down upon one's own body with the feeling that it was not "me".

(emphasis mine)

It strikes me that this is important. A feeling is just that - a feeling. I'm not saying it's not important, but it's certainly not an adequate basis for postulating an entire non-physical dimension (whatever that means) and labeling it "spiritual"

falasha wrote:Twistor, the laws of nature that we currently understand would definitely not account for this experience. But thousands and thousands of people are saying that these things happen to them. Therefore, we do not know ALL of the laws of nature. Instead of relegating these experiences to delusion or supernatural, why not accept their existence and investigate?

falasha, many in the other thread have tried to explain this, but I'll do it here too: we're not rejecting the existence of the experience, we're just rejecting your explanation of it - until it can be supported with evidence.

(By the way, delusion (hallucination might be a better word) is in fact a very good explanation for these experiences. It is parsimonious: it does not require us to invoke any heretofore undiscovered laws of nature. And it is likely: people have these experiences while affected by severe physical trauma and with compromised brain functioning - hallucinations are not at all surprising under such conditions.)