Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

Split from 'Is Jesus mythicism "denialism"?'

Discussions on UFOs, ghosts, myths etc.

Moderators: Calilasseia, DarthHelmet86, Onyx8

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1881  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 23, 2016 1:41 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
tolman wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:I didn't pull off the road in an instant. It took me probably 10 to 20 seconds to put my blinker on and lightly touch the brake to let the person behind know I was going to pull off. Then I negotiated my car onto the bitumen section of the side and started to brake for stopping, probably over another 20 seconds. There was plenty of room for the car behind me to pass me and many more after it. And only after I felt I was going slow enough did I go onto the gravel. So maybe about one minute till I was stopped.

In that scenario, if you hadn't slowed down and had just carried on driving (at 60km/h, ~17m/second), you'd have been way past the 'accident location' ('~100m in front of where you stopped') before the 'other' car veered across the road.

So what was the 'premonition' supposed to have done, exactly?


Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.

Sure, there was.

Fuck, you're inability to either remember or fabricate tales is well documented now.

Time to just go quietly and find some other group with whom your rubbish may be more successful.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk.
I AM Skepdickus!

Check out Hack's blog, too. He writes good.
User avatar
The_Metatron
Moderator
 
Name: Jesse
Posts: 21076
Age: 58
Male

Country: United States
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1882  Postby tolman » Jun 23, 2016 3:09 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
tolman wrote:In that scenario, if you hadn't slowed down and had just carried on driving (at 60km/h, ~17m/second), you'd have been way past the 'accident location' ('~100m in front of where you stopped') before the 'other' car veered across the road.

So what was the 'premonition' supposed to have done, exactly?


Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.

If what you said was remotely near-accurate, 'maybe' wouldn't come into it.
I don't do sarcasm smileys, but someone as bright as you has probably figured that out already.
tolman
 
Posts: 7106

Country: UK
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1883  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2016 3:14 pm

kyrani99 wrote:Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.


The bolded part demonstrates how you are not approaching this in an intellectually honest manner.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 56
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1884  Postby kyrani99 » Jun 23, 2016 3:34 pm

tolman wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:
tolman wrote:In that scenario, if you hadn't slowed down and had just carried on driving (at 60km/h, ~17m/second), you'd have been way past the 'accident location' ('~100m in front of where you stopped') before the 'other' car veered across the road.

So what was the 'premonition' supposed to have done, exactly?


Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.

If what you said was remotely near-accurate, 'maybe' wouldn't come into it.


The experience happened in my 20s and I am now in my late 60s and while I can remember it I can't extrapolate as to what could have happened if this or that condition would have happened, e.g., if I had ignored the premonition and continued on. So the only thing I can say if maybe this or that.

I also had another thought since I answered your comment. The future is not a set condition. It is continually becoming because the many different possibilities are narrowed down until only one set of possibilities remains that becomes the "now". So there could have been many other people's actions that would have played a role too. I may have subconsciously perceived future possibilities or was given knowledge (possibly by one of my spiritual allies ), which I experienced in the form of a premonition.

I could give a different example that was only about 10 years ago and much simpler but still a sort of premonition of danger or mental warning by a tree that was about to fall! :)
For a patient to heal the shaman uses any device, which will alter the patient's belief about reality.
User avatar
kyrani99
Banned Troll
 
Name: Kyrani Eade
Posts: 965
Female

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1885  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2016 3:39 pm

kyrani99 wrote:The experience happened in my 20s and I am now in my late 60s and while I can remember it I can't extrapolate as to what could have happened if this or that condition would have happened, e.g., if I had ignored the premonition and continued on. So the only thing I can say if maybe this or that.


Exactly. So, as I said, when can now dispense with the idea you had a "premonition". It's as uncertain as everything else you "remembered" about the incident, which subsequently you admitted to have not remembered at all.

I also had another thought since I answered your comment. The future is not a set condition. It is continually becoming because the many different possibilities are narrowed down until only one set of possibilities remains that becomes the "now". So there could have been many other people's actions that would have played a role too. I may have subconsciously perceived future possibilities or was given knowledge (possibly by one of my spiritual allies ), which I experienced in the form of a premonition.


Or (most likely) you had no premonition, possibly because premonitions do not occur.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 56
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1886  Postby BlackBart » Jun 23, 2016 3:41 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
I could give a different example that was only about 10 years ago and much simpler but still a sort of premonition of danger or mental warning by a tree that was about to fall! :)


And it would have as much value as your last cool story. And as I notice you totally failed to answer the questions I posed, despite the surfeit of typing you provided, so I'll ask it yet again.

How do we differentiate between your anecdotes and fabrication or delusion. And if we can't, what value do they have?
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12243
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1887  Postby kyrani99 » Jun 23, 2016 3:45 pm

Shrunk wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.


The bolded part demonstrates how you are not approaching this in an intellectually honest manner.


How do you arrive at that conclusion?
This is an assessment that I am making after the experiencet. It is reasonable to assume that there was danger if I had a premonition of danger and I can compare this with other situations where I had a premonition.

As I discuss in the answer to tolman the future is not set but continually becoming. There may have been a point which held a set of possibilities that presented me with danger.

Here again you want to try and blacken my character. Why?
For a patient to heal the shaman uses any device, which will alter the patient's belief about reality.
User avatar
kyrani99
Banned Troll
 
Name: Kyrani Eade
Posts: 965
Female

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1888  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Jun 23, 2016 3:47 pm

*rams more popcorn into his mouth*

This is just getting better and better.

I had a premonition once that I would fall while walking up the stairs. And then I fell walking up the stairs.

Only now that I think about it I actually fell on a flat bit of land. And I actually didn't fall at all, I just kind of stepped funny. But my wife said I didn't at all but what does she know she was only watching my legs. Oh and I only worked out I had a premonition after the event and I must of had it cause it was all true about me falling down the stairs.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1889  Postby Sendraks » Jun 23, 2016 3:48 pm

kyrani99 wrote:Here again you want to try and blacken my character. Why?


He isn't. He's criticising your behaviour.

You=/= your behaviour.

If you're so concerned that your behaviour reflects badly on you I don't know what to suggest. Perhaps changing your behaviour? As a whacky entirely out of left-field option.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 15239
Age: 104
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1890  Postby kyrani99 » Jun 23, 2016 3:50 pm

Shrunk wrote:

Or (most likely) you had no premonition, possibly because premonitions do not occur.


In your opinion and based on your experience only. You cannot comment on what experiences I had.
For a patient to heal the shaman uses any device, which will alter the patient's belief about reality.
User avatar
kyrani99
Banned Troll
 
Name: Kyrani Eade
Posts: 965
Female

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1891  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 23, 2016 3:51 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
This is an assessment that I am making after the experiencet. It is reasonable to assume that there was danger if I had a premonition of danger and I can compare this with other situations where I had a premonition.


You don't understand. Your testimonial that you had a premonition is not sufficient to convince a skeptic that you had a premonition of the event you claim to have had a premonition of. Ever.

The reason for this is that the event is now in everyone's past. When you have a premonition, tell everyone about it before anything happens, and be very specific. Very specific. If possible get a camera crew to come in and record your premonition on video. With evidence of the date. And all.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Al Forno, LLD,LDL,PPM
Posts: 29554
Age: 23
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1892  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2016 4:04 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:
This is an assessment that I am making after the experiencet. It is reasonable to assume that there was danger if I had a premonition of danger and I can compare this with other situations where I had a premonition.


You don't understand. Your testimonial that you had a premonition is not sufficient to convince a skeptic that you had a premonition of the event you claim to have had a premonition of. Ever.

The reason for this is that the event is now in everyone's past. When you have a premonition, tell everyone about it before anything happens, and be very specific. Very specific. If possible get a camera crew to come in and record your premonition on video. With evidence of the date. And all.


It's so easy. Or it would be, if "premonitions" actually existed. Yet no believer in "premonitions" has ever succeeded in doing this. Some have tried, but have been shown to have been fraudulent or mistaken. The proferred explanation is usually that "premonitions don't work like that", rather than the more obvious and likely correct explanation.

Of course, when someone cannot even produce the required level of specificity after the alleged event occurred, that's a very special kind of wrong.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 56
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1893  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 23, 2016 4:06 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:Maybe I could have been past it, about 300 meters down the road. But I don't think I would have got a premonition of danger if there was no danger. Every other time I have had a premonition there was danger.


The bolded part demonstrates how you are not approaching this in an intellectually honest manner.


How do you arrive at that conclusion?
This is an assessment that I am making after the experiencet. It is reasonable to assume that there was danger if I had a premonition of danger and I can compare this with other situations where I had a premonition.

As I discuss in the answer to tolman the future is not set but continually becoming. There may have been a point which held a set of possibilities that presented me with danger.

Here again you want to try and blacken my character. Why?

Stop. projecting. motives. on. your. interlocutors.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 31088
Age: 31
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1894  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2016 4:08 pm

kyrani99 wrote:
Shrunk wrote:

Or (most likely) you had no premonition, possibly because premonitions do not occur.


In your opinion and based on your experience only. You cannot comment on what experiences I had.


So why are you telling us about them, if you don't want comments?

You can't even remember if people died in this horrific accident you claim happened. You expect us to take your word about remembering whether you had a "premonition"? Why would anyone do that?
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 56
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1895  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Jun 23, 2016 4:09 pm

I have premonitions all the time about 2 milliseconds before something happens I know it is going to happen. You can't prove me wrong.

I premonitioned that I would type the number one next. 1

Worship me.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1896  Postby kyrani99 » Jun 23, 2016 4:11 pm

BlackBart wrote:
kyrani99 wrote:
I could give a different example that was only about 10 years ago and much simpler but still a sort of premonition of danger or mental warning by a tree that was about to fall! :)


And it would have as much value as your last cool story. And as I notice you totally failed to answer the questions I posed, despite the surfeit of typing you provided, so I'll ask it yet again.

How do we differentiate between your anecdotes and fabrication or delusion. And if we can't, what value do they have?


I did answer your question. I said you have to inquire further and try to get the sequence of events and tease out the person's emotional response. I know the scientific view is that we are all robots so maybe you want to see a computer printouts of the robot's past experiences and without emotion of course.

Some people do make up stories. Possibly it is hard to determine what is a made up story and what is not in some cases. But people here are trying to call a person's memory, which is emotionally charged and may include impressions formed at the time, as fabrication. So by that definition anything can be called a fabrication.

As for delusions again anything that is in a person's subjective experience and interpersonal environment, to which all others are not privy, is, by many people especially skeptics, called delusional. Maybe that is what you want to call it but this is only your opinion. There is no scientific evidence for any personal/subjective experience so a skeptic will want to use that to call another person's memory of an experience as a fabrication or delusion, especially if it conflicts with their view of reality. :roll:
For a patient to heal the shaman uses any device, which will alter the patient's belief about reality.
User avatar
kyrani99
Banned Troll
 
Name: Kyrani Eade
Posts: 965
Female

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1897  Postby the_5th_ape » Jun 23, 2016 4:17 pm

DarthHelmet86 wrote:
I premonitioned that I would type the number one next. 1

Worship me.

:pray:
Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like
sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door

Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Best Answer
User avatar
the_5th_ape
 
Posts: 3530
Male

Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1898  Postby the_5th_ape » Jun 23, 2016 4:19 pm

Cito di Pense wrote: If possible get a camera crew to come in and record your premonition on video. With evidence of the date. And all.

Kyrani knows to draw.
Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like
sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door

Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Best Answer
User avatar
the_5th_ape
 
Posts: 3530
Male

Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1899  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2016 4:20 pm

kyrani99 wrote:But people here are trying to call a person's memory, which is emotionally charged and may include impressions formed at the time, as fabrication. So by that definition anything can be called a fabrication.


No. In this case it is called fabrication because the "facts" of the story are internally contradictory. All passengers in the two vehicles could not have been killed instantly without there being any deaths occurring in the crash. You could not have seen something that you did not see. These are the claims you have made about your story. We don't have to know what happened to know that your story is false, and emotional content is irrelevant to the falseness of your story.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 56
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1900  Postby Arnold Layne » Jun 23, 2016 4:21 pm

OK, so she's back...again. :nono:

I will join in with this thread, but I really need to be pissed first.

See you later..................
I'm a Pixiist
User avatar
Arnold Layne
 
Posts: 2711

Country: France
France (fr)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Paranormal & Supernatural

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest