Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1941  Postby Agrippina » Jun 27, 2016 11:45 am

:lol:
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1942  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 4:29 pm

Many personal experiences of the paranormal are dismissed by scientists as "hallucinations". But, how can scientists objectively dismiss a subjective experience as an "hallucination" when they don't have access to what was actually witnessed. I recently saw a ghostly shadow of my recently deceased cat. Was my mind, in a state of grief, conjuring up the image or did the spirit of my late cat make an appearance? How can you determine if I experienced a neruological hallucination or a spiritual experience?
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1943  Postby Sendraks » Oct 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Wortfish wrote: Was my mind, in a state of grief, conjuring up the image or did the spirit of my late cat make an appearance? How can you determine if I experienced a neruological hallucination or a spiritual experience?


In the absence of evidence to support the latter, the default would be the assumption given that does have an evidential basis.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1944  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 05, 2018 4:38 pm

Not another bloody thread FFS.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1945  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 05, 2018 4:52 pm

Wortfish wrote:Many personal experiences of the paranormal are dismissed by scientists as "hallucinations". But, how can scientists objectively dismiss a subjective experience as an "hallucination" when they don't have access to what was actually witnessed. I recently saw a ghostly shadow of my recently deceased cat. Was my mind, in a state of grief, conjuring up the image or did the spirit of my late cat make an appearance? How can you determine if I experienced a neruological hallucination or a spiritual experience?

The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1946  Postby BlackBart » Oct 05, 2018 4:54 pm

Meeeooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1947  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 05, 2018 5:09 pm

Wortfish wrote:Many personal experiences of the paranormal are dismissed by scientists as "hallucinations". But, how can scientists objectively dismiss a subjective experience as an "hallucination" when they don't have access to what was actually witnessed. I recently saw a ghostly shadow of my recently deceased cat. Was my mind, in a state of grief, conjuring up the image or did the spirit of my late cat make an appearance? How can you determine if I experienced a neruological hallucination or a spiritual experience?

This morning one of my breakfast eggs suddenly grew a mouth and told me that the lizard illuminati are trying to take over the world. How can you dismiss this subjective experience as a hallucination? You don't have access to what I witnessed!
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1948  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:10 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


That's the whole problem. These experiences are usually one-offs...if they were regular and normal then they wouldn't be paranormal, now would they? However, many others experience this sort of thing so it cannot be just me.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1949  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 05, 2018 5:13 pm

Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


That's the whole problem. These experiences are usually one-offs...if they were regular and normal then they wouldn't be paranormal, now would they? However, many others experience this sort of thing so it cannot be just me.

Then, shut up.

You have nothing.

Cat spirit. Show us one. You want us to believe your shit, show us that cat spirit.


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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1950  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


That's the whole problem. These experiences are usually one-offs...if they were regular and normal then they wouldn't be paranormal, now would they? However, many others experience this sort of thing so it cannot be just me.

So basically what you're saying is that the problem is that these experiences are completely indistinguishable from incredibly common and explicable tricks of the eye and mind.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1951  Postby newolder » Oct 05, 2018 5:17 pm

If anyone is seeing the shadow of their recently deceased cat, I advise them to bury the cat.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1952  Postby laklak » Oct 05, 2018 5:28 pm

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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1953  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1954  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:32 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Wortfish wrote: Was my mind, in a state of grief, conjuring up the image or did the spirit of my late cat make an appearance? How can you determine if I experienced a neruological hallucination or a spiritual experience?


In the absence of evidence to support the latter, the default would be the assumption given that does have an evidential basis.
This is not hard.


But then what is the basis for the "hallucination"? Why and how did my mind conjure it up? I'd like to know because I fail to see how it is possible given that I was fully awake, not under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and have no prior experience of seeing ghosts or even believing in their existence. Reason tells me that I must have experienced something paranormal.

I should also point out that I felt something pressing on my body as I was about to go to bed, as my cat used to do, such that I couldn't move. However, I might have been tired at the time and I could have experienced some sort of emotion-induced paralysis. But seeing a grey shadow of my cat rubbing against my leg leaves me with little doubt that my cat's spirit is trying to console me. Of course, if I am right, of course, then there is an afterlife and spirit world and so atheism is probably false.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1955  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:33 pm

Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


I was taking a piss in the bathroom when this happened with the lights full on. I was annoyed at first that my cat would come and comfort at such an awkward moment.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1956  Postby Sendraks » Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm

Wortfish wrote:[I'd like to know because I fail to see how it is possible given that I was fully awake, not under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and have no prior experience of seeing ghosts or even believing in their existence. Reason tells me that I must have experienced something paranormal.


Drawing "reason" from an appeal to incredulity.
You're only drawing the conclusions you want to draw. Just confirming your own biases.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1957  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:36 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


That's the whole problem. These experiences are usually one-offs...if they were regular and normal then they wouldn't be paranormal, now would they? However, many others experience this sort of thing so it cannot be just me.

So basically what you're saying is that the problem is that these experiences are completely indistinguishable from incredibly common and explicable tricks of the eye and mind.


Because they don't happen all the time for the same person, they cannot be investigated by science. However, I will happily submit myself to a psychiatrist to see if it is possible that I could be hallucinating.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1958  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:38 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Wortfish wrote:[I'd like to know because I fail to see how it is possible given that I was fully awake, not under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and have no prior experience of seeing ghosts or even believing in their existence. Reason tells me that I must have experienced something paranormal.


Drawing "reason" from an appeal to incredulity.
You're only drawing the conclusions you want to draw. Just confirming your own biases.


As stated, I never believed in ghostly visitations. I was not asking my late cat to appear before me. I have never experienced an hallucination before except in a dreamy state where I was not fully conscious. But, at the time, I was just taking a leak.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1959  Postby newolder » Oct 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Wortfish wrote:...
I was taking a the piss in the a bath chatroom when this happened

FIFY
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1960  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


There is a difference between the mind playing tricks based on the lack of light within the room, and the confusion this may cause, and a full frontal apparition as I experienced.
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