Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1961  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 05, 2018 5:46 pm

Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
The scientific method eludes you, doesn’t it?

Set up an experiment. Repeat the result you think you experienced.

Start with demonstrating the existence of cat spirits. We can get to your perception later. Cat spirits.

Show us one.


That's the whole problem. These experiences are usually one-offs...if they were regular and normal then they wouldn't be paranormal, now would they? However, many others experience this sort of thing so it cannot be just me.

So basically what you're saying is that the problem is that these experiences are completely indistinguishable from incredibly common and explicable tricks of the eye and mind.


Because they don't happen all the time for the same person, they cannot be investigated by science.

They do happen all the time for the same person. I'm willing to bet that wasn't the only trick of the eye you experienced that day.

However, I will happily submit myself to a psychiatrist to see if it is possible that I could be hallucinating.

Let me save you the trouble of going to a psychiatrist: people see things that aren't there all the time. It's not unusual, it's not special. If you want anyone to think you've had a special experience, and more importantly if you want to prove to yourself you've had a special experience, you'll need something more than your personal credulity.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1962  Postby Sendraks » Oct 05, 2018 5:47 pm

Wortfish wrote:As stated, I never believed in ghostly visitations. I was not asking my late cat to appear before me. I have never experienced an hallucination before except in a dreamy state where I was not fully conscious. But, at the time, I was just taking a leak.


Uh huh but, your posting history here show's you to have a pre-disposition to entertaining supernatural fuckwittery so your "never believing ghostly visitations" really doesn't amount to much.

What does matter is your default position is one of appealing to incredulity by not believing that your brain could trick you in that way, so instead immediately latching onto the paranormal option. That's not employing reason. That's skipping reason entirely.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1963  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


There is a difference between the mind playing tricks based on the lack of light within the room, and the confusion this may cause, and a full frontal apparition as I experienced.

So we've gone from a shadow to a full frontal apparition now? Looks like someone's reaching for their foregone conclusion.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1964  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 05, 2018 5:53 pm

FFS Please mods put this crap into one thread or give us the possibility to remove threads.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1965  Postby scott1328 » Oct 05, 2018 5:57 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


There is a difference between the mind playing tricks based on the lack of light within the room, and the confusion this may cause, and a full frontal apparition as I experienced.

In what principaled, non-special pleading way can a disinterested party examine various reports and conclude some are mind-tricks and some are "true" apparitions?
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1966  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


There is a difference between the mind playing tricks based on the lack of light within the room, and the confusion this may cause, and a full frontal apparition as I experienced.


Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:Sometimes, at night, if I leave clothes on the chair in my room, I look across and see a person.

The person is always gone when I turn the light on.

Either my brain pattern matches to resolve what I'm seeing in terms of the familiar or I am chronically haunted.


I was taking a piss in the bathroom when this happened with the lights full on. I was annoyed at first that my cat would come and comfort at such an awkward moment.


Two replies to one post? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

But if I was to assume that you weren't lying, or bending the truth, or overstating your case, then I'd say that they are actually not dissimilar. I often think I see my cat in my peripheral vision (which is black and white and much lower resolution because of the structure of the human eye) and then turn to see it, only to find it isn't there, or there's some vaguely cat shaped object instead. When my last cat died I was very sad, and emotionally cued to look for it I frequently thought I saw it, only to find it wasn't there on closer inspection.

It would be possible for someone to then make this into a larger, stronger image upon recollection, by memory rehearsal and desire to believe, in the heightened emotional state that follows loss.
Last edited by Thommo on Oct 05, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1967  Postby Sendraks » Oct 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:FFS Please mods put this crap into one thread or give us the possibility to remove threads.


As nonsensical as Wortfishes contributions are, they are on topic for this discussion.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1968  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2018 6:23 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:So we've gone from a shadow to a full frontal apparition now? Looks like someone's reaching for their foregone conclusion.


Just so. Memories change in the rehearsal and the retelling, at the best of times. There are a lot of well documented and verifiable effects of this nature.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1969  Postby laklak » Oct 05, 2018 7:00 pm

Then there's psychosis.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1970  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 7:17 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
So we've gone from a shadow to a full frontal apparition now? Looks like someone's reaching for their foregone conclusion.


It wasn't a "shadow" in the sense of a silhoutte. It is easy to be fooled by that kind of phenomenon. It was a shadow in the sense of an "shadow figure" or ghost. It was grey - I distinctly remember that - and it lasted about 2 seconds.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1971  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 05, 2018 7:45 pm

Why have you not shown us how to detect a cat spirit?

Apply some rigour to the problem.


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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1972  Postby Wortfish » Oct 05, 2018 9:23 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Why have you not shown us how to detect a cat spirit?

Apply some rigour to the problem.


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This thread is about evidence based on personal experiences, not scientific observation.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1973  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 05, 2018 10:12 pm

Wortfish wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Why have you not shown us how to detect a cat spirit?

Apply some rigour to the problem.


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This thread is about evidence based on personal experiences, not scientific observation.

Experiencing what? You have to define your terms.


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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1974  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2018 10:32 pm

Wortfish wrote:It was grey - I distinctly remember that - and it lasted about 2 seconds.


Grey - peripheral vision where you can't see colour. Two seconds - your eyes move to see something in your periphery and trigger chronostasis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronostasis

These are exactly the kinds of facts that fit, consistent, testable, known optical illusions.

How exactly they are supposed to fit ghost cats (don't think cats have souls, or at least souls that wander Earth, in Christian theology) as a better theory I can't even begin to fathom.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1975  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 05, 2018 11:15 pm

Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
So we've gone from a shadow to a full frontal apparition now? Looks like someone's reaching for their foregone conclusion.


It wasn't a "shadow" in the sense of a silhoutte. It is easy to be fooled by that kind of phenomenon. It was a shadow in the sense of an "shadow figure" or ghost. It was grey - I distinctly remember that - and it lasted about 2 seconds.

And what's your rigorous methodology to distinguish between a "shadow figure" or "ghost" (putting aside how you determine that they exist in the first place) and just a regular ol' shadow?

Wortfish wrote:
This thread is about evidence based on personal experiences, not scientific observation.

Even in the sense of personal experience, "I claim to have seen a ghost" is about the poorest excuse for evidence one could have.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1976  Postby The_Piper » Oct 06, 2018 4:41 am

Image :shifty:
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1977  Postby TopCat » Oct 06, 2018 1:35 pm

Much as my eyeball muscles ache from all the rolling whenever I read anything from Wortfish, I had a very similar experience when my dog died, several times over several days with decreasing frequency and intensity until it subsided completely.

I hasten to add that in no way do I think it was supernatural in any way, but it was interesting to note.

I'd had the dog for only two years, and he and I had formed a very close bond. When he died after a short illness, it was terrible. I had never known grief like it, or even known that grief could be that bad.

It definitely fucked with my mind. I 'saw' him frequently for a few days after he died, during normal daylight and not under the influence of any substances.

Obviously when I looked again he wasn't there. It was quite a surprise, but even after the first time, I realised what was going on, and sure enough the effect wore off as the intensity of the grief subsided.

The difference between myself and Wortfish in this respect is that I would require much better evidence that my dog somehow lived on, than a few brief hallucinations that had a perfectly simple explanation.
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1978  Postby Fallible » Oct 06, 2018 1:37 pm

:(
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1979  Postby TopCat » Oct 06, 2018 1:40 pm

Fallible wrote::(

??
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Re: Can personal experience be evidence of the paranormal?

#1980  Postby Fallible » Oct 06, 2018 2:20 pm

Sorry, it's sad what happened to your dog.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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