Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#21  Postby Nostalgia » May 03, 2012 11:53 pm

:picard:
We are alive, so the universe must be said to be alive. We are its consciousness as well as our own. We rise out of the cosmos and see its mesh of patterns, and it strikes us as beautiful. And that feeling is the most important thing in all the universe.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#22  Postby Onyx8 » May 04, 2012 12:34 am

:Lol: I assume you have a call into Randi?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#23  Postby MarkP80 » May 04, 2012 1:04 am

There is no spoon!
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#24  Postby Onyx8 » May 04, 2012 1:10 am

So AC, are you praying to God that the object move or are you actually expending energy of some type to move it? Got any clues as to how this energy travels/what it is?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#25  Postby Nostalgia » May 04, 2012 1:12 am

Maybe it's something to do with circles and polygons... :ask:
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#26  Postby SafeAsMilk » May 04, 2012 1:19 am

Onyx8 wrote:So AC, are you praying to God that the object move or are you actually expending energy of some type to move it? Got any clues as to how this energy travels/what it is?

I hope he's praying to God for it, because otherwise it's witchcraft, and that's a stoning offense. Either that, or the beginning of his career as a Jedi.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#27  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » May 04, 2012 1:35 am

So there's not enough evidence for evolution according to Clastie, but this wacked-out horseshit would qualify as substantiated phenomena in the natural world?
Last edited by Ihavenofingerprints on May 04, 2012 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#28  Postby zulumoose » May 04, 2012 6:23 am

It is because those who lean towards belief rather than skepticism apply vastly different criteria in verifying something they would like to believe in compared to something they have no interest in believing.

If they really want to believe in something, a single anonymous anecdote related to them by someone they do not know is confirmation, and a mountain of hard evidence would not refute it.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#29  Postby Onyx8 » May 04, 2012 6:32 am

Have you experimented Atheistoclast? (You know; done science.) Perhaps put a sheet of glass between you and this object on a thread? How about a sheet of plastic? Does the effect you see change in any way when you do? Have you measured the movement? Have you changed the object, the thread, the weight, the length and then measured the movement?

This is exciting stuff, you have me all warmed up, there are so many ways to go from this "I can move objects withmy mind" stuff, that I can hardly contain myself waiting for the paper you are presumably writing as we speak.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#30  Postby Animavore » May 04, 2012 8:31 am

Atheistoclast wrote:
John P. M. wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:I particularly like this because materialistic science is consistently in denial about the power of mind (and faith) over matter even though there are plenty of scientific studies on the subject of psychosomatic illnesses and cures. What for the scientist is supernatural nonsense, is actually natural mental energy.


I think there's a 'slight' difference between something being psychosomatic, and someone being able to control and manipulate matter apart from their body through the will of their mind alone. I think the world would be a very different place if the latter were the case to a statistically significant degree. How feeble this mental energy must be, considering the lack of results. And yet, it's supposed to be a sort of 'offshoot' from the greatest Force, isn't it?


Oh, but I have successfully experimented with psychokinesis before. I haven't been able to move mountains, or walk on water, but I can get things suspended by a thread to move slightly just with the power of my own concentration.

Of course, Dr. Byron manages to do something more spectacular.

Anyone can do that. It's called the "ideomotor effect".
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#31  Postby Made of Stars » May 04, 2012 9:30 am

Atheistoclast wrote:There is a scene from the Hammer Horror B-movie, Asylum (1972), which is one of my favorites ever.

A young psychiatrist, Dr. Martin, is visiting an asylum and investigating 4 "incurable cases" of insanity among the patients. He visits a certain, Dr. Byron, who has been making battery-powered puppets/dolls that he is trying to control via his mind.

Dr. Byron believes that he can breathe his consciousness and will into his creations in the same manner as the LORD God breathed life into Adam. He pointedly asks Dr. Martin if he believes in the account of Genesis 2 whereby Dr. Martin replies that he "believes in science". The scene begins at 14:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBl8kYEpS8

Dr. Byron then succeeds in animating his dolls with the power of his mind in the following part of the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZb0AEn3 ... ure=relmfu

I particularly like this because materialistic science is consistently in denial about the power of mind (and faith) over matter even though there are plenty of scientific studies on the subject of psychosomatic illnesses and cures. What for the scientist is supernatural nonsense, is actually natural mental energy.

Joe, you do know that Asylum belongs to that category of movies known as 'fiction', don't you? :eh:
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#32  Postby Spinozasgalt » May 04, 2012 9:42 am

Nyeh, I find these sorts of films tiresome. If you want 70's horror, then you go for the quality attempts of the period that were quiet achievers only now getting a second look. Check out Olivia Hussey being chased down the stairs of a sorority house in Black Christmas: there are plenty of beautifully spooky silences and eerie moments, like when she calls out for a friend upstairs and gets no reply. And whilst the characters may not have enormous depth, these types are more interesting than the cliched, and often cartoonish, Man of Faith vs. Man of Science. Halloween makes a much more subtle and interesting point about rationality and society than does a film whose themes are obvious and pretty much spoken out loud.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#33  Postby Doubtdispelled » May 04, 2012 9:45 am

Animavore wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:
Oh, but I have successfully experimented with psychokinesis before. I haven't been able to move mountains, or walk on water, but I can get things suspended by a thread to move slightly just with the power of my own concentration.

Of course, Dr. Byron manages to do something more spectacular.

Anyone can do that. It's called the "ideomotor effect".

Wouldn't that only apply if the item's thread is suspended from the person's person, so to speak?

Where precisely, Atheisto, is the thread attached when you do this? :ask:
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#34  Postby CookieJon » May 04, 2012 9:46 am

Atheistoclast wrote:I haven't been able to move mountains, or walk on water...

I wish I'd have been there to see you trying to! :lol:
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#35  Postby Fallible » May 04, 2012 9:47 am

I can move, move, move any mountain.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#36  Postby CookieJon » May 04, 2012 9:55 am

Which reminds me of this...

I'm sure there's some tenuous link about science vs. faith in it somewhere.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8IQ5-89ey8[/youtube]
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#37  Postby John P. M. » May 04, 2012 3:59 pm

Atheistoclast wrote:
I haven't been able to move mountains

"Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."

Don't feel bad though. First of all, I think Jesus was prone to super-hyperbole.
Secondly, you can choose to go with the other version of this saying, in which the mountain is substituted for a mulberry tree. Surely a more manageable item for someone just starting out in the business of faith-throwing of stuff.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#38  Postby Atheistoclast » May 04, 2012 7:41 pm

Onyx8 wrote:So AC, are you praying to God that the object move or are you actually expending energy of some type to move it? Got any clues as to how this energy travels/what it is?


I just concentrate. The energy I transmit is very subtle, hence the point of suspending the object by a thread. I have done controlled experiments and am getting some good data. :thumbup:
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#39  Postby Onyx8 » May 04, 2012 7:43 pm

Please describe these experiments.

When you say "good data" do you mean data that supports your hypothesis or data that is reproducible?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Classic movie scene about Science v Faith

#40  Postby Animavore » May 04, 2012 7:46 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:
Oh, but I have successfully experimented with psychokinesis before. I haven't been able to move mountains, or walk on water, but I can get things suspended by a thread to move slightly just with the power of my own concentration.

Of course, Dr. Byron manages to do something more spectacular.

Anyone can do that. It's called the "ideomotor effect".

Wouldn't that only apply if the item's thread is suspended from the person's person, so to speak?

Where precisely, Atheisto, is the thread attached when you do this? :ask:


You basically hold the thread between forefinger and thumb and tie something like a wedding ring to it and let it dangle. You then 'will' it to move away from you and draw it back. After a little bit it starts to move and you will swear you didn't move it. But you actually do. It is the same principle as Ouija boards and stuff.

See Derren Brown Tricks of the Mind.
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