I've been wondering about the afterlife and God in general and I suppose if ghosts can be proven to exist, then this would be proof of an afterlife of some sorts. I've been told a story about a ghost by family members where a boy was crying for his mom for weeks and one night, they heard a woman crying in a nearby room but no one was there (and their house was a farm house with no one around for miles).

I can understand visual phenomenon explained by the brain's activity and what not, but what about sound or namely, someone crying?

Also, this friend I have has been telling me that he can see "shadow people" and see "angels" in the form of sillohettes. He seems like an otherwise perfectly normal 22 year old, and though I coaxed him to see a specialist he won't budge insisting it's real and he knows it's real. I was wondering. what kind of mental illness could this be associated with where the person only sees these types of things? Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

?

inkaStepa wrote:I've been wondering about the afterlife and God in general

Afterlife, that is the continued existence of consciousness/mind/spirit/soul/whatyawannacallit separate from physcial medium, and God (especially the Xtian one if that's what you mean) aren't necessarily requisite of one another tho.

I suppose if ghosts can be proven to exist, then this would be proof of an afterlife of some sorts

If we got compelling evidence (compelling to others than Jerome, that is -- cheers old chap! ) of ghosts being some kind of phenomenon related to the aforementioned afterlife, the problem would then be determing what kind of afterlife they imply. Many ghosts are reported to be quite mechanistic in nature, more like afterimages than in any way consciouss/minded/spirited.

I've been told a story about a ghost by family members where a boy was crying for his mom for weeks and one night, they heard a woman crying in a nearby room but no one was there (and their house was a farm house with no one around for miles).

Such anecdotes are unfortunately exceedingly difficult to explain in any way post hoc.

I can understand visual phenomenon explained by the brain's activity and what not, but what about sound or namely, someone crying?

Various apparently brain-produced sound phenomena are fairly common. Apparent sound of crying is in fact, I think, fairly typical of such.

Of course things get quite a bit more complicated when several people hear something at the same time.

Also, this friend I have has been telling me that he can see "shadow people" and see "angels" in the form of sillohettes. He seems like an otherwise perfectly normal 22 year old, and though I coaxed him to see a specialist he won't budge insisting it's real and he knows it's real

Well, the things he observes are kinda-sorta real as he is experiencing them (discounting the option that he's just, well, lying...). Only it may well be they aren't intersubjectively real , never mind objectively so. That is to say, they may well not have an independent existence outside of his experience one likes to think, say, he personally has outside of yours or mine. They could be for example some sort of misinterpretations as per pareidolia linked to above.

I was wondering. what kind of mental illness could this be associated with where the person only sees these types of things?

This, I can't help you with. Sure I could dig something up on the 'net but I hesitate to lay down lists of symptoms that may or may not apply.

Hey inkaStepa! The debate here may interest you -- formal-debates/formal-debate-existence-of-ghosts-apparitions-t6927.html

I'll have a hack at replying properly tomorrow.

j x

jerome wrote:Hey inkaStepa! The debate here may interest you -- formal-debates/formal-debate-existence-of-ghosts-apparitions-t6927.html

I'll have a hack at replying properly tomorrow.

j x

Hey J, I'm sure he was hinting at that Looking forward to your reply, btw!

inkaStepa wrote:I can understand visual phenomenon explained by the brain's activity and what not, but what about sound or namely, someone crying?

Why do you think sound is any less a brain-phenomenon than sight?

Also, this friend I have has been telling me that he can see "shadow people" and see "angels" in the form of sillohettes. He seems like an otherwise perfectly normal 22 year old, and though I coaxed him to see a specialist he won't budge insisting it's real and he knows it's real. I was wondering. what kind of mental illness could this be associated with where the person only sees these types of things? Thanks!

Not many, it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination#Visual

inkaStepa wrote: I've been told a story about a ghost by family members where a boy was crying for his mom for weeks and one night, they heard a woman crying in a nearby room but no one was there (and their house was a farm house with no one around for miles).

I'm a little confused here - can you give more details? What's important is whether they heard the crying at the same time, and then the order of who heard it and when. I guess these facts are now lost to history. I'd also be interested in how long the phenomenon occurred for (just once, or multiple times.) Assuming multiple witnesses heard it at the same time, it's not hallucinatory. They were hearing something - the question is what! For a crying baby a fox can do a pretty good impression, but once words get involved its harder, though not impossible as i once clearly heard a fox say "Good evening" or similar to me. (I'm pretty sure it didn't, but I heard the noise it made that way). Or it could be it was a ghost!

Obviously if one person hears something and says "did you hear hat woman crying" everyone is primed from then onwards to hear a woman crying. However it could be that they heard a woman crying -- a tape recording, a radio, a concealed girlfriend, hey almost anything is possible.

I had an experience a bit like that once. I had been addressing a public meeting on the subject of ghosts at a pub near Corby, Northamptonshire. Myself and my ex-girlfriend Polly retired to bed, and as we turned the light off a baby started to cry. I say a baby, but we both repeatedly heard the word "mama!" A small child. "Foxes" I said."Wish they would shut up." (or something like that anyway). It sounded loud enough that it was in the room with us.

After ten minutes of chatting we returned to the subject "it keeps calling for it's mama!" At that point Polly got up to shoo the foxes away or hurl a shoe out of the window at them or something. No foxes could be seen, and the noise was clearly in the building, not outside the window. OK, so we now thought our hosts child was upset. So I wondered through to check on Louis - he was fast asleep - and realised the "voice" was coming from the bedroom we were in. As I walked in I turned the light on for the first time - and the noise stopped, instantly, as if it had been switched off - it did not fad it did not slow - it just cut out.

SO we assumed now out hosts who were old friends were hoaxing us for a laugh, using some kind of light sensitive tape recorder.We id a quick search, found nothing, shrugged and went to bed (Turning a light on would hardly bother the hypothetical foxes given the number of lights outside.) Our hots were still downstairs talking to the lock in, and there was no TV in the rooms nearby - maybe someone in the car park had switched off a radio play? Anyway we soon got bored, turned the light off and went back to bed. About an hour had passed since we first went up, and then it started again. This time we listened for five minutes and Polly got up and turned on the room light - and as before, the sound stopped immediately.

We listened for five minutes, and hearing our hosts come upstairs thought of asking them what it was, but they started making snogging and bumping noises so we abandoned that idea, and turned off the light. Within twenty minutes the voice, about the level of an insistent and annoyed baby in the room with you, or a TV being watched by a deaf elderly relative, or perhaps me at a nightclub - ie. quite loud - came back. Being the ace ghosthunter i am I had a dictaphone on me for recording witness statements - but it was in a suitcase, and I still felt it was just unreasonable that the foxes of Corby could talk - mama! mama! wail....wail! We both eventually put the light on, it stopped, and we just went to sleep. I did not bother to record the noise, because to be honest I just did not think it was a ghost, I thought it was a trick being played on me, or ventriloquist fox.

I'd like to say there was some kind of legend or explanation, but the hosts knew of none, and given I had just talked on ghosts if the ancient pub actually had a ghost story I think one of the locals would have told me. Polly is a complete sceptic - but in the morning she suggested what we heard might have been a ghost, with a very wry and embarrassed smile. I was less convinced -- if it was it raises more questions than it answers. Why are spooks photosensitive? Why did it cut out the moment the light was turned on?

The only thing I am certain about it was it was not a hallucination - we both were hearing it, loud and clear, and it was annoying. Our hosts had no idea what it was, and I still have no idea today, but it was annoying at the time!

j x

inkaStepa wrote:I've been wondering about the afterlife and God in general and I suppose if ghosts can be proven to exist, then this would be proof of an afterlife of some sorts. I've been told a story about a ghost by family members where a boy was crying for his mom for weeks and one night, they heard a woman crying in a nearby room but no one was there (and their house was a farm house with no one around for miles).

I can understand visual phenomenon explained by the brain's activity and what not, but what about sound or namely, someone crying?

Also, this friend I have has been telling me that he can see "shadow people" and see "angels" in the form of sillohettes. He seems like an otherwise perfectly normal 22 year old, and though I coaxed him to see a specialist he won't budge insisting it's real and he knows it's real. I was wondering. what kind of mental illness could this be associated with where the person only sees these types of things? Thanks!

Interesting.

As you'll see from the debate thread, both Jerome and myself will tell you that ghosts are a real phenomena.

As for your friends 'shadow people', we'd need to know under what conditions he is experiencing these. If he is experiencing these visuals under normal daylight conditions then I'd recommend he sees a specialist.

Thanks for the replies and that debate might as well be a novel lol.

The story I posted is about my grandfather in Peru. The story goes that when he was a little boy his mom died and he would cry for her at night for months. His aunt and other family members would take care of him in the house. There was no electricity at the time and they used oil candles to light the house at night when they needed to. When he was crying one night, everyone in the house heard it but like I said, they couldn't find the "woman."

It still scares me!!

jerome wrote:Why are spooks photosensitive? Why did it cut out the moment the light was turned on?

Maybe it was "living" in the electric wires and got a nasty jolt every time you turned on the lights

Would explain the incessant cryin' too, I suppose...

inkaStepa wrote: everyone in the house heard it but like I said, they couldn't find the "woman."

It still scares me!!

When I was a kid I slept at the cemetery on a dare. It was a large area of land with a significant amount of graves and whatever. I'll tell you one thing, the cemetery is a noisy place at night. I heard a lot of crying, moaning & low whispers. It's strange but a lot of people visit the cemetery at night.

Bookmarking for more interesting ghost stories.

jerome wrote: Why are spooks photosensitive? Why did it cut out the moment the light was turned on?

The crickets in my garage stop making noise when I turn the light on in there.

Why do ghosts have a time limit? I mean, where are the ghosts of Neanderthals, dinosaurs and whatever else is extinct? Ghosts it seems have a penchant for being recent... a figure seen walking by a window, the top of the stairs, or at the foot of a bed....none of them can be older than the building itself. If buildings and other places of lodgings are popular 'haunts' then why can't I go to a once inhabited cave and observe my ancestors? Wouldn't it be great if ghosts for every thing that ever lived appeared on a regular basis, just for study purposes? Imagine what we could learn from a prehistoric animal ghost for instance.

Alas the ghosts of history back ( I loved that term from Mad Max) are pretty much absent. I think all ghost enthusiasts should campaign their ilk for more sightings from ancient history. I wonder if those sightings might increase with the suggestion.

My favorite ghosts are the inanimate ones, like the Flying Dutchman" Yet even that one was seen for the last time about 60 years ago after a pretty good run. Just fizzled out like animate ghosts I guess. Better find that crying baby before it packs up.

Maybe they fade over time, like old photographs.

inkaStepa wrote:I've been wondering about the afterlife and God in general and I suppose if ghosts can be proven to exist, then this would be proof of an afterlife of some sorts.

Why would this be proof of an afterlife?

tnjrp wrote:Maybe they fade over time, like old photographs.

Damn UV rays!!

Well, if ghosts do exist: they are techinically dead so their existence would be that of an after-life wouldnt it?

inkaStepa wrote:Well, if ghosts do exist: they are techinically dead so their existence would be that of an after-life wouldnt it?

No, if ghost exist then they are only proof of immaterial beings. Or should I say, immaterial beings in this universe/observable dimensions.

Anything further to that is pure conjecture on your part.

It would still be an after-life though wouldn't it since the ghost is technically dead and still existing? Even if it is on Earth?

What would an after-life be defined as then if not life after death?

inkaStepa wrote:Well, if ghosts do exist: they are techinically dead so their existence would be that of an after-life wouldnt it?

Some ghosts or apparitions are not immediately obviously tied to a specific dead person tho.

Also, consider photographs (or film reels or videos or portrait paintings or whatever) you may have of your passed-away grand parents or great grand parents or however back you can or have to go. Do you believe they have an afterlife because there are those pictures of them still in existence?

Now, all kidding aside, it might actually really be a similar case with ghosts. If they are any kind of nonmundane phenomenon at all, obviously, which I personally rather doubt.