Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

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Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#1  Postby -Sylvan-Shadow- » Mar 01, 2010 6:39 am

that nobody really seems to know much about.

Okay first things first, I am an atheist, but I do believe in spirits or whatever you want to call them. Many other Atheist's have called me "ignorant", "stupid" for believing in such things, but I simply cannot dismiss them as "a figment of the human imagination". There are simply too many sightings, too much video footage and other documented encounters for me to say they don't exist. I like to keep an open mind on these types of things.
I know a great percentage of them are fake, but what about the rest.

Is it possible these "things" can be explained through science if given proper research?
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#2  Postby Tbickle » Mar 01, 2010 6:50 am

They should be tested by all means. I would just like to know why the existence of ghosts/spirits have never been shown to exist under controlled conditions. I do wonder why you are so sure that these things exist if you don't even know exactly what they are. Quantity of sightings means nothing when determining existence, especially when taking in account a person's imagination, the lack of serious evidence besides grainy photos and "orb" photos, human being's poor night vision, and the desire to believe.

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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#3  Postby virphen » Mar 01, 2010 6:54 am

We know hallucinations occur. We know frauds exist. We know mirages are seen. We know people want ghosts and spirits to exist.

Which sightings/phenomenon can't be accounted for by these 4 pillars of woo, or others of the same ilk?
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#4  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Mar 01, 2010 7:01 am

The people who go after ghosts are just another brand of the worthless anomaly hunters. They dink around in the corners of dark abandoned buildings and look for things that they think they can't explain. Anything they don't understand becomes anomalous and everything anomalous means that ghosts did it. The fact that they go around looking for 'unusual' electrical frequencies in houses that are littered with wires and live electricity is laughable.
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#5  Postby -Sylvan-Shadow- » Mar 01, 2010 7:09 am

Yes it should be tested, build a lab around a "haunted house" if need be.

My uncle has seen quite a bit, or claims he has. He's told me about a few of his encounters in vivid detail, so what you are saying is that he's either lying to me, or that he was hallucinating?
So i suppose thousands of people have either lied or hallucinated what they have seen and experienced ?

*sigh* I don't want a debate on whether ghosts are real or not, I am simply looking for a scientific explanation to there possible existence. :cry:
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#6  Postby Tbickle » Mar 01, 2010 7:14 am

Wouldn't that require a discussion that may entail questioning their existence. Billions have claimed that god had appeared, spoke, or communicated with them. Does that make god's existence likely?
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#7  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Mar 01, 2010 7:20 am

-Sylvan-Shadow- wrote:Yes it should be tested, build a lab around a "haunted house" if need be.

My uncle has seen quite a bit, or claims he has. He's told me about a few of his encounters in vivid detail, so what you are saying is that he's either lying to me, or that he was hallucinating?
So i suppose thousands of people have either lied or hallucinated what they have seen and experienced ?

*sigh* I don't want a debate on whether ghosts are real or not, I am simply looking for a scientific explanation to there possible existence. :cry:


I wouldn't necessarily say that he is lying or hallucinating. He could very easily be misinterpreting what he has seen. One of the most common objects that is mistaken for being a UFO is the planet Venus. It can have an odd halo effect which makes some people think that it is some kind of alien ship in the sky. These people aren't hallucinating, they are simply misinterpreting visual cues.

At this stage there is no scientific explanation to their possible existence. There is, however, some scientific explanations as to why certains types of claimed evidence of ghosts are false. Much of this has to do with certain effects that occur due to camera flashes and the development of photos.
Last edited by Crocodile Gandhi on Mar 01, 2010 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#8  Postby -Sylvan-Shadow- » Mar 01, 2010 7:22 am

Tbickle wrote:Wouldn't that require a discussion that may entail questioning their existence. Billions have claimed that god had appeared, spoke, or communicated with them. Does that make god's existence likely?


:think: I suppose so.

I guess soo many documentaries and T.V shows on the paranormal make it a lot easier to believe in their existence.
Anyway, since no one has any evidence proving or disproving ghosts, anyone that does believe in them have any suggestions as to what they are, and how science may be able to explain them ?
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#9  Postby HughMcB » Mar 01, 2010 7:24 am

Why would you believe in a supernatural and not a God?

If I believed in spirits I think I'd automatically assume Goddiit! :)
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#10  Postby Slacktoo » Mar 01, 2010 7:29 am

I've always found the idea of ghosts/spirits ridiculous. If there truly are dead people floating about, why? Why float around scaring the shit out of people that are alive instead of doing [whatever else] in whatever other dimension they exist in? Are you telling me that's all the afterlife is? Floating like an idiot? If so, I can't say I look forward to it... :what:
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#11  Postby -Sylvan-Shadow- » Mar 01, 2010 7:36 am

HughMcB wrote:Why would you believe in a supernatural and not a God?

If I believed in spirits I think I'd automatically assume Goddiit! :)


For me it was the other way around, I found Atheism and was quite sure of it, and still am very sure of it. But then I started to think about ghosts( I honestly hadn't given them much thought before hand).
I don't think they're the souls of the dead or any other crap like that. To me a more logical explanation would be something like a glimpse of an event that was happening in that place and time in another dimension.

There are endless possibilities so I don't think people should just rule out the possibility of spirits.

The reason believing in a spirit is different from believing in theism is that no one offers any solid evidence for the against argument. Evolution is the against argument to a deity.

That is my understanding anyway, I'm relatively new to this so forgive me if i may have been ignorant in that last section.
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#12  Postby jerome » Mar 01, 2010 9:31 am

Um, I should respond but I'm not feeling so well. Hugh, Loads of spiritualist are atheists - look up Arthur Findlay. One still sees his arguments cited by modern atheists -- who probably have no idea they come from someone so involved with modern mediumship! Anyway ghosts -- I'll have a think about how to get as much info as possible across without boring everyone to death. Virphen' sposition is oddly close to mine actually...

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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#13  Postby jerome » Mar 01, 2010 12:50 pm

OK, well a start -- might make you laugh at how bad it is! (Parts 2 & 3 (shorter) to follow!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOKMY6yLTg[/youtube]

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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#14  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Mar 01, 2010 1:07 pm

jerome wrote:OK, well a start -- might make you laugh at how bad it is! (Parts 2 & 3 (shorter) to follow!


j x


I disagree strongly with your statement that the sceptical position is to say that all the stories are made up. That is not what I have heard any decent sceptic say. I don;t doubt at all that people have these exeriences. I just think that they are arbitrarily relating these experiences to ghosts.

Just a couple of questions about your "ghost hunts", is this just something among friends, or does anyone come along? Do you advertise it as just a bit of fun?
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#15  Postby jerome » Mar 01, 2010 1:12 pm

OH I know that is not the "Sceptical" position among actual Sceptics - I'm using sceptical with a small 's' as in "sceptical" not "Sceptical". In short I'm referring not to intlligent sceptics, but nay saying. :) My friends on the JREF and UK-Skeptics would shoot me otherwise.

Friends, people we know, and once in a blue moon others. I advertised a couple on Facebook. They are non-profit events - people pay for their hotel room, in case oyu were wondering, and that's it. It's not a bit of fun : it'squite serious research actually - just I'm watching the ghosthunters as well, and they all know that. :)

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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#16  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Mar 01, 2010 1:17 pm

jerome wrote:OH I know that is not the "Sceptical" position among actual Sceptics - I'm using sceptical with a small 's' as in "sceptical" not "Sceptical". In short I'm referring not to intlligent sceptics, but nay saying. :) My friends on the JREF and UK-Skeptics would shoot me otherwise.

Friends, people we know, and once in a blue moon others. I advertised a couple on Facebook. They are non-profit events - people pay for their hotel room, in case oyu were wondering, and that's it. It's not a bit of fun : it'squite serious research actually - just I'm watching the ghosthunters as well, and they all know that. :)

j x


I really dislike the whole ghosthunting phenomenon. By that I mean going into buildings with instruments that the ghosthunters don't understand, looking for anything that they perceive to be anomalous, then declaring that there a spirits afoot. I'm not making any judgement on yourself, I'm just commenting from what I have seen. Some of the lousy experimentation that goes into shoving electro-magnetic frequency detectors in every corner, recording white noise, and snapping pictures in every direction does not deserve to be given the title of experiementation.
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#17  Postby jerome » Mar 01, 2010 1:21 pm

Crocodile Gandhi wrote:[

I really dislike the whole ghosthunting phenomenon. By that I mean going into buildings with instruments that the ghosthunters don't understand, looking for anything that they perceive to be anomalous, then declaring that there a spirits afoot. I'm not making any judgement on yourself, I'm just commenting from what I have seen. Some of the lousy experimentation that goes into shoving electro-magnetic frequency detectors in every corner, recording white noise, and snapping pictures in every direction does not deserve to be given the title of experimentation.


Yeah: see my comments in the rest of the video. I'll post some more on that later --I'm just uploading the second part... OK here it is --

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDhwd5_6me0[/youtube]


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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#18  Postby jerome » Mar 01, 2010 1:50 pm

For any real masochists - the final part...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9KYpUn8Dk[/youtube]

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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#19  Postby XiledSpawn » Mar 01, 2010 6:03 pm

If they exist they should be quantifiable, and so far they can't be.
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Re: Ghosts, spirits, those unexplained things....

#20  Postby tnjrp » Mar 02, 2010 7:08 am

HughMcB wrote:Why would you believe in a supernatural and not a God?

If I believed in spirits I think I'd automatically assume Goddiit!
Well, I suppose it's a common conclusion to draw but I think it's a hasty one. Separable spirits/souls/consciousness doesn't automatically imply divinity.

Moreover in the case of hauntings, I'm not even sure if they all actually point to an existence of spirits in the first place. Assuming of course they are not actually misinterpretations of some mundane, but possible rare phenomena :think:
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