Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

Pi, e and alpha found in the Masoretic/Textus Receptus

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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#81  Postby Onyx8 » Mar 30, 2016 8:48 pm

blue triangle wrote: why don't you show me how the appearance of pi and e in scripture could be explained in naturalistic terms.



Easy, they didn't appear.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#82  Postby Shrunk » Mar 30, 2016 8:50 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

We could try to distract him into arguing whether or not 0.999... is 1.0 or not, but he might not be able to switch tracks very easily.
They are equal. :grin:


Do you know how to prove it, or will you just cite the result as 'historically attested'?
I didn't come here to talk maths with you, Cito di Pense. Instead of trying to distract me (and I wont be distracted this time, so give it up) why don't you show me how the appearance of pi and e in scripture could be explained in naturalistic terms. You made a lot of noise pal, so it's time to put up or shut up.


You haven't shown that pi and e are in scripture. I'm not sure how that escaped your notice. When I was taking math in high school, if I missed an answer by a factor of 1040, I didn't get full marks. I'd get a zero. I don't know about you.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#83  Postby Thommo » Mar 30, 2016 8:50 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

We could try to distract him into arguing whether or not 0.999... is 1.0 or not, but he might not be able to switch tracks very easily.
They are equal. :grin:


Do you know how to prove it, or will you just cite the result as 'historically attested'?
I didn't come here to talk maths with you, Cito di Pense. Instead of trying to distract me (and I wont be distracted this time, so give it up) why don't you show me how the appearance of pi and e in scripture could be explained in naturalistic terms. You made a lot of noise pal, so it's time to put up or shut up.


Well, if pi appeared in scripture, then presumably one could explain it naturalistically as you yourself did - by pointing out that pi has been known about for thousands of years. Any educated person of the time could have written about it.

But perhaps more importantly it would be necessary for pi to actually appear in scripture before an explanation of that event is required.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#84  Postby Thommo » Mar 30, 2016 8:52 pm

Shrunk wrote:You haven't shown that pi and e are in scripture. I'm not sure how that escaped your notice. When I was taking math in high school, if I missed an answer by a factor of 1040, I didn't get full marks. I'd get a zero. I don't know about you.


pi x 10whatever doesn't appear either.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#85  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Mar 30, 2016 8:52 pm

Onyx8 wrote:And how do errors in different numbers 'cancel' anyway? If I build a door frame an inch too tall and a window frame an inch too short, will everything fit just fine? (Never mind building it 10^17th too tall, and 10^40th too short)

This reminds me of when some Jehovah's Witnesses tried to claim that the Earth's orbital distance was evidence for an intelligently designed solar system. They told me that if the Earth were 5% further one way or 3% further the other, it would be inhospitable to life. So I was like, "REALLY? God was off by 1%?? Do you have any idea how much that is in terms of the Earth's orbital distance?!"
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#86  Postby blue triangle » Mar 30, 2016 8:56 pm

Onyx8 wrote:And how do errors in different numbers 'cancel' anyway? If I build a door frame an inch too tall and a window frame an inch too short, will everything fit just fine? (Never mind building it 10^17th too tall, and 10^40th too short)


You assume that we are meant to use these estimations of pi and e. We aren't, so the analogy fails, I'm afraid.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#87  Postby Onyx8 » Mar 30, 2016 8:57 pm

How do the errors cancel?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#88  Postby TopCat » Mar 30, 2016 8:57 pm

blue triangle wrote:why don't you show me how the appearance of pi and e in scripture could be explained in naturalistic terms. You made a lot of noise pal, so it's time to put up or shut up.

No one has shown that pi and e appear in scripture.

You have shown that 10^17 times a number with the first few digits of pi appear if you do some arbitrary arithmetic on selected aspects of a selected verse in scripture.

And you've shown that 10^40 times a number with the first few digits of e appear if you do the same arithmetic. Yes, it's mildly frisson-inducing if you're into that sort of thing - but funny things happen in numbers a lot, if you look hard enough.

And in claiming that the errors 'cancel out', you're doing another bit of arbitrary arithmetic on the numbers - but not until you arbitrarily ignore the huge factors.

This is shameful. I don't care if it gets me a forum warning, but this isn't just intellectual dishonesty, it's evidence of mental illness.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#89  Postby Scar » Mar 30, 2016 9:04 pm

The bible, if skillfully searched and by ignoring some minor errors, also clearly supports my contention that Jesus sucks dick, as per Jeremiah 13:16+ (http://dmitrybrant.com/fun-with-the-bible-code).
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#90  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Mar 30, 2016 9:05 pm

I suggested that a fellow forum member was mentally ill before it was cool. :hipster:
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#91  Postby Scar » Mar 30, 2016 9:07 pm

I think the evidence for Jesus' dick sucking is indeed way better than that silly pi and e stuff from the op.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#92  Postby Onyx8 » Mar 30, 2016 9:08 pm

what's more interesting is that if you add 'pi' to 'e' you get 'pie'.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#93  Postby TopCat » Mar 30, 2016 9:16 pm

Onyx8 wrote:what's more interesting is that if you add 'pi' to 'e' you get 'pie'.

And if you add e, pi, and the speed of light, what you get is epic.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#94  Postby Shrunk » Mar 30, 2016 9:20 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Onyx8 wrote:And how do errors in different numbers 'cancel' anyway? If I build a door frame an inch too tall and a window frame an inch too short, will everything fit just fine? (Never mind building it 10^17th too tall, and 10^40th too short)


You assume that we are meant to use these estimations of pi and e. We aren't, so the analogy fails, I'm afraid.


Umm, no. Your argument is that getting each measurement wrong by the same amount in opposite directions is the same thing as getting them both correct. Which is really, really funny.

If NASA shot a probe to Mars and missed by 1040 miles in one direction, then tried again and missed by 1040 miles in the opposite direction, would that mean they hit a bullseye? :lol:
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#95  Postby campermon » Mar 30, 2016 9:29 pm

TopCat wrote:
Onyx8 wrote:what's more interesting is that if you add 'pi' to 'e' you get 'pie'.

And if you add e, pi, and the speed of light, what you get is epic.


and if you add entropy, pi, the speed of light and e, what you get is spice.

The spice must flow.

:cheers:
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#96  Postby Thommo » Mar 30, 2016 9:40 pm

campermon wrote:and if you add entropy, pi, the speed of light and e, what you get is spice.

The spice must flow.

:cheers:


He who controls the spice controls the universe.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#97  Postby campermon » Mar 30, 2016 9:44 pm

^funilly enough - just watching th lynch version now.

:beer:
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#98  Postby blue triangle » Mar 30, 2016 9:45 pm

Thommo wrote:
blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

We could try to distract him into arguing whether or not 0.999... is 1.0 or not, but he might not be able to switch tracks very easily.
They are equal. :grin:


Do you know how to prove it, or will you just cite the result as 'historically attested'?
I didn't come here to talk maths with you, Cito di Pense. Instead of trying to distract me (and I wont be distracted this time, so give it up) why don't you show me how the appearance of pi and e in scripture could be explained in naturalistic terms. You made a lot of noise pal, so it's time to put up or shut up.


Well, if pi appeared in scripture, then presumably one could explain it naturalistically as you yourself did - by pointing out that pi has been known about for thousands of years. Any educated person of the time could have written about it.
And what about e?

But perhaps more importantly it would be necessary for pi to actually appear in scripture before an explanation of that event is required.
The first four digits of pi and 5 digits of e are there. If you want to ignore them and pretend they mean nothing, ignore them. But the truth is they are there and it's a very reasonable argument (though not provable) that they do mean something. I took up AlanB's challenge to provide evidence that there is a non-physical mind interacting with the universe. That's my evidence. Its statistically improbable (though not impossible, of course) and very very intriguing, wouldn't you say. The odds against the two digit sequences appearing in the Bible as a whole are quite low, but the odds against the first four digits of pi appearing in the first verse of any of the 66 books, are about 1 in 150. The odds against the first five digits of e appearing in any of those first verses is about 1 in 1500 (1 in 1540 if pi has already been found). The odds against both occurring within 66 verses are about 1 in 230000. Of course one of them is the first verse of scripture, so the odds against chance occurrence increase even more, if you ask that question.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#99  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 30, 2016 9:48 pm

blue triangle wrote: If you want to ignore them and pretend they mean nothing, ignore them. But the truth is they are there and it's a very reasonable argument (though not provable) that they do mean something.


So you say. What do you take away from how easily ignored are your requests for serious engagement with bald assertions?

blue triangle wrote:The odds against both occurring within 66 verses are about 1 in 230000.


You, who know fuck all about how to assess what long odds are. There's a few tens of billions of other places to look for those numbers, and if you get busy, you'll find them elsewhere, too. Protip, BT. Billion is a bigger number.
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Re: Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

#100  Postby chairman bill » Mar 30, 2016 9:50 pm

Evidence of confirmation bias & numerical pareidolia, does not equal evidence for some supernatural entity.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
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