Mediums

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Re: Mediums

#261  Postby Wortfish » Nov 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Thommo wrote:
The obvious explanation is that Wortfish is not relaying the details of his anecdote correctly, but it's also possible the "medium" is relaying information that has been acquired by other mecahnisms, like cold reading. Which adds to the third with a fourth, and potentially more.

I'd estimate the odds of any explanation other than "intentional lying" to be sub 1% though, personally.


Cold reading only happens when the medium is given information by the person using his services. I only gave his name although that revealed something of the cat's character. I never said I was using a skin ointment, was spending too much time on my desktop or there were shrooms and mold growing on some of the walls in my house. I didn't even come close to divulging such information. Anyway, I have booked a fourth reading and, hopefully, will get more info. Maybe my cat can tell me what happens to the souls of atheists.
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Re: Mediums

#262  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:No dear, Occam's Razor says that the explanation which requires the least speculation is more likely to be correct. The explanation requiring the least speculation here is not that spirits exist, that cats have spirits, that there is an afterlife, that dead cat spirits can project their presence to others and that those others can communicate with dead cats. That explanation is that you're lying through your teeth.

But you know that, don't you, because you have read at least enough to know that Occam's razor speaks of the simplest explanation, and only a fucking moron would posit that an explanation requiring multiple speculations is the simplest. You're not good at this.


It is a choice between freaky coincidence or the existence of spirits. I take the latter as the most plausible explanation.

Folks who have a vested interest in spirits existing usually do. Doesn't change the fact that no rigorous evidence has ever been presented for spirits, while freaky coincidences observably do exist.
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Re: Mediums

#263  Postby Wortfish » Nov 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Stop saying something demonstrably wrong.

I myself am undecided on the nature of reality. And I am an atheist.


You are confusing non-theism with atheism. Deists are not theists but they are not atheists.
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Re: Mediums

#264  Postby Wortfish » Nov 12, 2018 7:36 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Folks who have a vested interest in spirits existing usually do. Doesn't change the fact that no rigorous evidence has ever been presented for spirits, while freaky coincidences observably do exist.

Looking for physical evidence for spiritual beings seems a little forlorn. However, there is a vast body of evidence reporting peopee's experiences with spirits, past lives and the supernatural. You can't just deny this evidence.
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Re: Mediums

#265  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:
The obvious explanation is that Wortfish is not relaying the details of his anecdote correctly, but it's also possible the "medium" is relaying information that has been acquired by other mecahnisms, like cold reading. Which adds to the third with a fourth, and potentially more.

I'd estimate the odds of any explanation other than "intentional lying" to be sub 1% though, personally.


Cold reading only happens when the medium is given information by the person using his services.

If you think it's only information intentionally offered by the victim person, then you don't know how cold reading works.

I only gave his name although that revealed something of the cat's character. I never said I was using a skin ointment, was spending too much time on my desktop or there were shrooms and mold growing on some of the walls in my house. I didn't even come close to divulging such information.

That you aren't aware of having divulged that information is neither here nor there, again assuming any of this even happened. I'm not sure how many times it needs to be pointed out that you claiming things isn't, in and of itself, evidence of anything except that someone somewhere is typing on a keyboard.

Anyway, I have booked a fourth reading and, hopefully, will get more info. Maybe my cat can tell me what happens to the souls of atheists.

Taking a wild guess here, it'll be an answer that placates the believer.
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Re: Mediums

#266  Postby SafeAsMilk » Nov 12, 2018 7:40 pm

Wortfish wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Folks who have a vested interest in spirits existing usually do. Doesn't change the fact that no rigorous evidence has ever been presented for spirits, while freaky coincidences observably do exist.

Looking for physical evidence for spiritual beings seems a little forlorn.

You are insisting that spiritual beings interact with the physical world, therefore physical evidence must exist if the spirits you claim to exist do. That's just a fact. Deal with it.

However, there is a vast body of evidence reporting peopee's experiences with spirits, past lives and the supernatural. You can't just deny this evidence.

I of course wouldn't deny people have made claims, heck, you've done it here. People can claim whatever they want. Claims, without any corroborating evidence, are worth diddly-squat.
Last edited by SafeAsMilk on Nov 12, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mediums

#267  Postby Thommo » Nov 12, 2018 7:40 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thommo wrote:
The obvious explanation is that Wortfish is not relaying the details of his anecdote correctly, but it's also possible the "medium" is relaying information that has been acquired by other mecahnisms, like cold reading. Which adds to the third with a fourth, and potentially more.

I'd estimate the odds of any explanation other than "intentional lying" to be sub 1% though, personally.


Cold reading only happens when the medium is given information by the person using his services.


Information is not only given verbally. Your appearance, age, time of day of appointment, visible skin conditions, smell, state of dress and many other things are also information. If you're telling the truth.

This seems unlikely given your repetition of information being given to you from the first "session" in the third "session" you described, and yet presented in both cases by yourself as something the medium could not have known. As well as the shifting details of the story and late and non-specific announcement that "some" of the three sessions were conducted by different mediums.

Wortfish wrote:I only gave his name although that revealed something of the cat's character. I never said I was using a skin ointment, was spending too much time on my desktop or there were shrooms and mold growing on some of the walls in my house.


You also told me that the cat did not tell the medium to tell you to tell us that there were shrooms, and even by your own account this was a detail provided to us, by you, and not to you by the medium.

Of course you could insist on contradicting yourself on that point, but as I said, that would add to the impression that the explanation for your story is something other than either coincidence or genuine astral cattitude.

Wortfish wrote:I didn't even come close to divulging such information. Anyway, I have booked a fourth reading and, hopefully, will get more info. Maybe my cat can tell me what happens to the souls of atheists.


You previously said that the cat had provided you with predictions. Perhaps it would be better to get a prediction you could share with us, that we could all verify, than some preachy bollocks that would contravene the FUA.
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Re: Mediums

#268  Postby Fallible » Nov 12, 2018 7:41 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:No dear, Occam's Razor says that the explanation which requires the least speculation is more likely to be correct. The explanation requiring the least speculation here is not that spirits exist, that cats have spirits, that there is an afterlife, that dead cat spirits can project their presence to others and that those others can communicate with dead cats. That explanation is that you're lying through your teeth.

But you know that, don't you, because you have read at least enough to know that Occam's razor speaks of the simplest explanation, and only a fucking moron would posit that an explanation requiring multiple speculations is the simplest. You're not good at this.


It is a choice between freaky coincidence or the existence of spirits.


Nope. You don't get to say what the choice is when you come here with your stories. I choose 'talking out of your arse', as it's the most parsimonious explanation.

I take the latter as the most plausible explanation.


Really don't care what you allegedly take as the most plausible.
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Re: Mediums

#269  Postby Fallible » Nov 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:
I was told I would have two children and definitely no more, as I would get my tubes tied. Both wrong. I was told I would have a very long life. Well, unless someone discovers the cure for cancer in the next couple of years, that's another swing and a miss. I was told I was going to get divorced very soon. Nope. We tend to remember the hits - unfortunately there weren't any, but I remember the most spectacular failures very well. I reckon you should be able to find some good troll fodder in this, have fun.

Are you saying that you are actually dying or you just think you may get cancer?


I've got incurable cancer. They couldn't really have got more wrong on that one.
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Re: Mediums

#270  Postby Fallible » Nov 12, 2018 7:47 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Stop saying something demonstrably wrong.

I myself am undecided on the nature of reality. And I am an atheist.


You are confusing non-theism with atheism.


You are talking out of your bottom again.

Deists are not theists but they are not atheists.


Yes, dear, they're deists.
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Re: Mediums

#271  Postby Thommo » Nov 12, 2018 7:51 pm

Deists believe there is a god. In the sense of the word "theist" as used above, deists are theists.

Although it would take wilful obfuscation to confuse the issue by trying to use qualitative labels to convey strict entailment.
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Re: Mediums

#272  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 12, 2018 7:58 pm

scott1328 wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:
I charge what dear old Wortfish pretended to pay for a whole hour of counselling, I earn £10 less an hour in my regular job, and I've got concrete evidence that I'm competent, attachment to legally recognised bodies and such. Never mind Wortfish, it's all the poor people who did pay so much to consult charlatans that I feel sorry for.

I could have blown the £90 on pot and a hooker. Instead, I got an insight into the otherworld.

You would have gotten more out of the pot and hooker.

You would have gotten more if you had used the £90 to wipe your ass.

How?

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Re: Mediums

#273  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 12, 2018 7:59 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Fallible wrote:

This is such incredibly lazy trolling. You can't honestly tell me you find this enjoyable.


There is nothing stopping you from getting a reading yourself. But don't expect your atheism to survive the session.

Because somehow if you can talk to the dead that must mean a divine being exists? Wouldn't it merely entail that something survives death? These questions are rhetorical.


It is about consistency. Life after death is fully consistent with the idea that there is a God whereas it is inconsistent with atheism. It is true that some non-theistic religions believe in an afterlife, but atheists are materialists who think when the body dies there is no soul that outlives it.

Demonstrate this “soul”. Demonstrate it, or drop it.


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Re: Mediums

#274  Postby Rumraket » Nov 12, 2018 8:07 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Stop saying something demonstrably wrong.

I myself am undecided on the nature of reality. And I am an atheist.


You are confusing non-theism with atheism. Deists are not theists but they are not atheists.

No, I'm not confusing those. I'm not a deist and I'm not a theist either. I'm an atheist.
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Re: Mediums

#275  Postby scott1328 » Nov 12, 2018 9:43 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
I could have blown the £90 on pot and a hooker. Instead, I got an insight into the otherworld.

You would have gotten more out of the pot and hooker.

You would have gotten more if you had used the £90 to wipe your ass.

How?

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I know they still print pound notes in the UK. And yes, the benefit derived from wiping one's ass with pound notes, exceed the benefit one derives by giving pound notes to a psychic.
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Re: Mediums

#276  Postby Fallible » Nov 13, 2018 7:41 am

Actually no pound notes here since 1988. £5 is the lowest denomination of paper money. 1/2 p piece retired in 1984, 1p piece, 2p piece, 5p piece, 10p piece, 20p piece, 50p piece, one pound coin, two pound coin, five pound note, ten pound note, twenty pound note, fifty pound note, one hundred pound note. Possibly some higher notes, I don't know. In case anyone's interested.
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Re: Mediums

#277  Postby Hermit » Nov 13, 2018 10:31 am

Wortfish wrote:
Rumraket wrote:I myself am undecided on the nature of reality. And I am an atheist.

You are confusing non-theism with atheism. Deists are not theists but they are not atheists.

No, Rumraket is not confusing anything. Atheism means nothing more than "without god" Atheism, that is "without god" means both disbelief and lack of belief in a god. From Webster's dictionary:
1 a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
and from the Oxford dictionary:
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


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Re: Mediums

#278  Postby Wortfish » Nov 13, 2018 11:47 am

The_Metatron wrote:
Demonstrate this “soul”. Demonstrate it, or drop it.


Demonstrate parallel universes or drop this multiverse hypothesis. Demonstrate the existence of dark matter.

Just because science is unable to detect and measure all of reality, doesn't mean that all of reality does not exist.
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Re: Mediums

#279  Postby Wortfish » Nov 13, 2018 11:50 am

Fallible wrote:
I've got incurable cancer. They couldn't really have got more wrong on that one.


Listen up, because I want to help:

1. There is no such thing as an incurable disease.

2. Spontaneous remission (miraculous disappearance) of cancer is reported in the literature.

3. Anti-cancer drugs and other treatments often only provide pallative care.

4. Alternative healing methods, including spiritual healing, have helped cure people of cancer.

5. Your body has all the means to destroy cancer but needs guidance from your mind.
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Re: Mediums

#280  Postby Wortfish » Nov 13, 2018 11:55 am

Thommo wrote:
Information is not only given verbally. Your appearance, age, time of day of appointment, visible skin conditions, smell, state of dress and many other things are also information. If you're telling the truth.


My readings were done over the phone.

This seems unlikely given your repetition of information being given to you from the first "session" in the third "session" you described, and yet presented in both cases by yourself as something the medium could not have known. As well as the shifting details of the story and late and non-specific announcement that "some" of the three sessions were conducted by different mediums.


The first two readings were with an American medium. The third was with a Brit.
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