Quick Question!

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Quick Question!

#1  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 2:11 am

" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"
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Re: Quick Question!

#2  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 11, 2010 2:12 am

Totally. I have an active imagination. Usually what I've "heard" is the voice of a person I was just thinking about. Or something I was waiting for/expecting to hear.
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Re: Quick Question!

#3  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 2:19 am

mmmcheezy wrote:Totally. I have an active imagination. Usually what I've "heard" is the voice of a person I was just thinking about. Or something I was waiting for/expecting to hear.


That's really interesting! I can "hear" songs if I think about them: but not voices of folks. I wish I could, I'd did that comforting. Does it happen completely unexpectedly? The question btw is from the 1894 Census of Hallucinations - not it was an investigation of hallucinations in the well and the non-intoxicated, which are I think FAR more common than many people realise (9.9% answered yes in 1894). I might have atheory to explain it (no it's not paranormal) but I'll write on that tomorrow.:)

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Re: Quick Question!

#4  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 11, 2010 2:21 am

I suppose it's unexpected inasmuch as it's sudden? I usually wind up looking around before realizing nobody said anything :D
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Re: Quick Question!

#5  Postby xsmooth_criminalx » Mar 11, 2010 2:23 am

jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"


Yeah, I have. I've felt like a light touch when I'm alone. Probably just my imagination, though. Either that or ghosts are perverts lol and/or don't respect personal space. :lol:
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Re: Quick Question!

#6  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 12:03 pm

Thanks! :) Any more welcome!
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Re: Quick Question!

#7  Postby skintbuthappy » Mar 11, 2010 12:10 pm

A couple of my workmates are convinced they had 'an experience' the other night, and the next morning, I was escorting an old lady back to her room when she suddenly stopped dead on the threshold and demanded to know why there was a woman in her bed. There wasn't.
Is this the style of thing you want, Jerome?
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Re: Quick Question!

#8  Postby Rumraket » Mar 11, 2010 12:34 pm

When I was a small kid I once had a dream about a toy I wanted a lot. The dream was so real to me, that when I woke up, I didn't actually realize that I had ever slept and dreamed about it, so I thought I actually had the toy (some model toy train :) ) and ran around the house frustratedly looking for it because I was convinced I had just been playing with it. Talk about strong wishful thinking right there :)
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Re: Quick Question!

#9  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 12:36 pm

skintbuthappy wrote:A couple of my workmates are convinced they had 'an experience' the other night, and the next morning, I was escorting an old lady back to her room when she suddenly stopped dead on the threshold and demanded to know why there was a woman in her bed. There wasn't.
Is this the style of thing you want, Jerome?


Yeah, I'm currious about that one. You work with the elderly? I often saw similar in my 'clients' but I worked in a mental hospital. Feel free to pm me if you want, maybe best not siscuss punlicly work stuff :( BUt I am very interested. What did the workmates experience?

I had a friend who worked ina care home who became convinced they had a poltergiest. The staff called me in, but sadly it was just rats. :)

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Re: Quick Question!

#10  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 12:39 pm

Rumraket wrote:When I was a small kid I once had a dream about a toy I wanted a lot. The dream was so real to me, that when I woke up, I didn't actually realize that I had ever slept and dreamed about it, so I thought I actually had the toy (some model toy train :) ) and ran around the house frustratedly looking for it because I was convinced I had just been playing with it. Talk about strong wishful thinking right there :)



I hope you got the toy eventually ! :) That sounds like a classic case of what we call 'thin boundaries' -between waking and sleep which is neither good nor bad in terms of mental health or anything else, and I'm not sure if it's a trait or a state, but does appear to hold up to experimental study. Hartmann's 1991 scale is on this website here - http://www3.telus.net/anemonecerridwen/hbq.htm - I score 399 - thin boundaries indeed! :)
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Re: Quick Question!

#11  Postby Nixon » Mar 11, 2010 12:45 pm

Yes. No. Maybe.

When I was a student, I came out of my bedroom onto the landing and just before I turned to go down the stairs, I glanced at the open door of the other bedroom and for a fraction of a second saw a friend stood there who had lived in the house before but moved out. Of course, she wasn't there, and I was alone in the house. No doubt it was some sort of glitch in memory but it frightened the life out of me and seemed very real at the time.

Since then, nothing except of late coincidences with my fiance and myself - all starting off when we realised we had the same birthday. Not saying they are anything less than coincidences but Lordy - so many of them.

I think we can probably all agree on the laws of physics and how the universe works, so I'm dubious about the value of discussing this sort of thing in terms of evidence rather than as subjective experience. I take what meaning I can get from such things and don't worry to much about objective reality or the need to prove anything. If that makes sense.
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Re: Quick Question!

#12  Postby Jehannum » Mar 11, 2010 12:55 pm

jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"


No.
Extraordinary claims require ordinary evidence.
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Re: Quick Question!

#13  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 12:55 pm

Ah, you see I am VERY involved in researching this sort of thing - I use a phenomenological approach, looking at the experience, and trying to understand how that experience is generated. It's why i ask bloody awkward questions like "what do we mean when we say "it's a placebo - how does that actually WORK?" and "what actually is Sleep Paralysis in terms of a neurological event, and where is the supporting experimental evidence?" But sure, the meanings of such things are personal constructs - the neurology and psychology however fascinates me ;)

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Re: Quick Question!

#14  Postby Aern Rakesh » Mar 11, 2010 1:09 pm

Hi, Jerome

I wrote a short article (as part of my work in religious education) on the Annunciation that looked at 'visitations' in general. I think you might be interested in the story on page 3, which describes a vivid 'encounter' experienced by a work colleague of mine.

Cheers, Nora
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Re: Quick Question!

#15  Postby LIFE » Mar 11, 2010 1:32 pm

jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"


No. Never. And I'm an extremely watchful person plus my imagination is very vivid. Still, haven't had such an experience.
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Re: Quick Question!

#16  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 1:33 pm

Thanks Nora that is an extremely interesting webpage you have there, and that is a truly fascinating experience! Are you still in touch with the lady? Don't the americans call a type of notepad a tablet? A golden tablet! how apt! :)

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Re: Quick Question!

#17  Postby jerome » Mar 11, 2010 1:36 pm

LIFE wrote:
jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"


No. Never. And I'm an extremely watchful person plus my imagination is very vivid. Still, haven't had such an experience.



Well 91.1% of people can not recall such an experience (Sidgwick 1894). However you seem a highly creative type LIFE, and thereofre a prime candidate for such an experience if imagination is the root. In fact I suspect there are all kinds of causes though _ i'm trying to spot patterns in the spontaneous experiences.
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Re: Quick Question!

#18  Postby Luis Dias » Mar 11, 2010 1:40 pm

jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"


I once had a terrible experience with three ghosts in my own bedroom, that scared the shit out of me for hours.

Of course, I wasn't non-afflicted by illness there, I had a very faint blood pressure and I think I was somewhat sick. Another time, I had a panic attack and experienced a conversation with big bad boy Lucifer himself, who was trying to convince me I was going to die right there (I was under some considerable stress in the university at that time, and I quite remembered Dostoievsky's Karamazov Brother's version of the same event).

So hummmm, perhaps my answer is "no"?

Which is kinda curious, because if one defines oneself as being ill because one has hallucinations, how can one has such experiences without being so? Perhaps all the people who have hallucinations and think they are ok are just wrong, or not as self-aware of their own issues as informed people, no?
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Re: Quick Question!

#19  Postby Nixon » Mar 11, 2010 1:43 pm

Thanks for the PM, jerome - I used to be hook, line and sinker for all sorts of preposterous stuff, and not necessarily in a good way, but the thing of possible value (or at least interest) that I took from all that were writings by T.C.Lethbridge - before anyone starts thumping tubs, they are writings and not presented as scientific papers, yes... I know - anyway, amongst his numerous implausible but nonetheless extremely well argued points was the idea of places or objects having the facility to record things which are then triggered by certain people. That still places the experience all very much in the mind of the beholder, and I honestly don't know what to think beyond finding it interesting.
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Re: Quick Question!

#20  Postby crank » Mar 11, 2010 1:45 pm

jerome wrote:" Have you ever - when believing yourself to be fully awake and unaffected by illness, drink or drugs -- had a vivid experience of seeing something or someone, or of hearing a voice, when there is nothing there and no ordinary cause you can find?"

Of course, everyone has, they are called dreams. Now, if you mean when your 'belief' was correct, no. Even during the many many accumulated years where no moment was unaffected by drink or drugs, still no. The closest then was perceiving motion where nothing moved (I am not talking about while on hallucinogens, that is a whole nuther thing entirely and irrelevant).

I believe one of the triggers for this, this is old news, is the high Type II (I think it's II) errors our highly trigger-fingered pattern recognition circuits commit. I see this routinely spotting some object I am unfamiliar with, often I will perceive it as one thing, clearly and unquestionably it 'looks' like 'a', but upon getting closer, I see that it actually is some 'b', the resemblance to 'a' happenstance, due to perspective, lighting, angle, whatever.

So, when you get to more fully realized hallucinations, what's to say it isn't just this phenomenon on steroids?
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