Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

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Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#1  Postby tnjrp » Nov 08, 2010 8:14 am

Well, it's what is says on the tin. Are this esteemed pair of investigating gentlemen really holding the smoking gun evidence for alien visitation that we sorryass debunking skeptics like to deny exists?

Namely, their names plus the links below were tossed up in lieu of the "the best documented alien implantation case and studies thereof" on the Finnish skeptics forum. As I'm a lazy ass bastich and I should really get some real work for my pay done some time too, I thought I'd have you peeps do the legwork on these fellow's work and present your educamated estimations as to its quality. Chop chop! :mrgreen:

They sound vaguely familiar in the context of UFO cases but can't recall any of the specifics...

Here is a link to a document that reportedly describes implant removals (didn't read it as of yet):
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listse ... 33734.html

And here's a YouTube clip of apparently also relevant material:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BBFbQzjkhM[/youtube]
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#2  Postby Wuffy » Nov 08, 2010 11:16 am

This guy was debunked by Penn and Teller years ago...
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#3  Postby tnjrp » Nov 09, 2010 8:38 am

Yes, seems a bit like they were, given this somehwat incensed little editorial. Some linkies to detailed analysis of their claims, and rebuttals if appropriate, would however be prefered
:coffee:

Just blithely googling for Leir for example tends to bring up stuff like this, at its saner end:
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/F ... 01565.html

[Podiatry surgeon] Dr. Leir explores recent genetic research that there are unexplainable anomalies in human genetic history and in 2003 it was discovered that 223 genes do not have the required predecessors on our geonomic evolutionary tree. These extra genes are completely missing in the invertebrate phrase. Therefore scientists can only explain their presence as recent in evolutionary time scale, and comment that this was not through gradual evolution, vertically on the tree of life, but horizontally as a ‘side ways insertion of genetic material’. Significantly these 223 genes are two-thirds the difference between the chimpanzee and Homo sapiens and include important psychological and psychiatric functions. How did humanity acquire such enigmatic genes? Dr Leir and other researchers believe the answer may well be extraterrestrial genetic intervention!
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#4  Postby tnjrp » Nov 16, 2010 9:38 am

More evidence for Leir & Sims' claims here, reputedly:
http://www.raven1.net/ufoimpla.txt

The site is consider harmfull by F-Secure so I can't currently read it to see what it contains. Approach carefully.
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#5  Postby GrahamH » Nov 19, 2010 4:36 pm

tnjrp wrote:More evidence for Leir & Sims' claims here, reputedly:
http://www.raven1.net/ufoimpla.txt

The site is consider harmfull by F-Secure so I can't currently read it to see what it contains. Approach carefully.

For what it may be worth, here is what that link takes me to:

Gildas Bourdais wrote:NOTE: This email describes the UFO implant removal and research
to date arranged for by Dr. Roger Leir, a podiatrist and UFO
researcher. Dr. Leir's web site is at:

http://www.AlienScalpel.com

Date sent: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:48:28 -0400
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Subject: On The Surgical Removal Of
Alleged Alien Implants - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:40:31 +0200
Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants

To EBK and the List,

Following my previous messages regarding Dr Leir's surgeries and
alleged implants, I thought it would be useful to give a sort of
basic summary of the findings, for those interested but lacking
information.

Dr Roger K. Leir was subjected repeatedly to strong criticisms
when he began talking publicly about his surgeries on alleged
alien implants.

One major criticism was, and still is, that he and his
colleagues have not written any scientific article, accepted by
a reputed scientific review. While this is a serious
shortcoming, it also appears that a significant amount of
credible information is available about these operations,
objects removed, alleged abductees and their personal stories.

Let's try to review briefly some basic information about them.

The surgeries

Here is the list of surgical extractions of alleged implants,
performed either by Dr Roger Leir (in the case of foot implants)
or by other surgeons with his assistance. This list is drawn
from the book of Dr Leir, 'The Aliens and the Scalpel'
published in 1998, and from several articles for later
operations (see below). For anyone looking for information on
the subject, the first thing to do is to buy his book and read
it.

It may be ordered from his web site at:

http://www.alienscalpel.com/


According to Table 1, page 164 of his book, 8 operations took place
from 1995 to 1998.

First set of 3 surgeries, before NIDS involvement

1) 8-19-95, Patricia. Two implants in left toe, metallic seed,
and metallic T-shape

2) 8-19-95, Paul. Left hand, metallic seed (looks like a
'cantaloup' seed)

3) 1-2-96, Babs (F). Left shoulder, 'elemental solid' ball

Second set, sponsored and paid by NIDS

4) 5-18-96, Annie. Left leg, elemental solid ball

5) 5-18-96, Doris. Left leg, elemental solid ball

6) 5-18-96, Don. Left jaw, metallic triangle

7) 1-12-97, Lyla. Left heel, glass sliver (earthly origin, discarded)

8) 8-17-98, Pablo. Left hand, metallic seed (filmed by NBC and
aired in February 1999)

Other surgeries, after the publication of the book

9) 2-5-2000, Tim Cullen. Left wrist, metallic seed (case
presented at the Laughlin UFO Congress of March 2000 with the
presence of Tim Cullen. Reported in the MUFON UFO Journal of May
2000, and at the Mufon Symposium of July 2000. (See the
Proceedings of the symposium, available at MUFON).

10) 10-29-2001, stewardess for a major airline. Small lump in
the right arm, the size of a pea (case presented at the Laughlin
UFO Congress, March 2002. Report in the British UFO Magazine of
May 2002. Will be presented at the Leeds International UFO
Conference, 20-22 September 2002).


The implants

Two series of tests have been performed in 1998 under the
direction of NIDS, more precisely of Colonel John Alexander, at
the Los Alamos National Laboratories, and at New Mexico Tech. In
his book, his articles and conferences, Roger Leir mentions
studies made in other laboratories, but these have not been
published yet.

We first have the results of the analysis done at New Mexico
Tech in 1996, paid by NIDS and published on its web site, at:

http://www.nidsci.org/

In addition to this document, we have the 'letter of opinion'
of the metallurgic engineer who did the tests, Mr Paul A.
Fuierer. It is not on the NIDS site, but it is reproduced by Dr
Roger Leir in his book, with his comments, and on his own web
site, at:

http://alienscalpel.com/NMTech-opinion.htm

It is also on the web site of the Abduction Information Centre
(AIC) managed by John Velez, on which we have in addition some
critical comments on the New Mexico Tech Analysis, at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/

As for the analyses done at Los Alamos, it seems that they are
presented, rather briefly, and only in the book of Dr Leir,
which he published on his own initiative. It seems important to
repeat here that, in the initial agreement between NIDS and the
Leir-Sims team, it was understood that NIDS would publish a
scientific article (according to Leir in his book). But instead
of that, in 1996 they pushed Leir to publish rapidly an article
in the Mufon UFO Journal (see p 175 of the book). Probably, this
did not help to achieve the goal of obtaining a scientific
publication.

Incidentally, Jacques Vall�e, who is member of the scientific
board of NIDS, could have easily obtained the publication of a
properly written article in the Journal of Scientific
Exploration. He obtained the publication, in April 2001, of a
sharp criticism of the Cometa report, written by the french
skeptic Claude Maug�, and translated by Vallee.

Why not an article on Dr Leir's implant scientific analyses done
in those two laboratories, whatever the conclusion would be?

In his book (paperback edition) Leir recalls that Vall�e was
present at the meeting with Bigelow and the NIDS scientific
board in Las Vegas.

We can also note that the biological findings have not been
published at NIDS, although there are biologists on the board.

Articles
For the record, here are the main articles, to be found easily in the
UFO litterature.

In the Mufon UFO Journal:

April 1996 (No 336): 'In Seach Of Hard Evidence' by Dr Roger Leir

June 1998 (No 362): 'Alien Implants - A 1998 Update' by Dr Leir

November 1998 (No 367): 'The effects of 'implant' removal
discussed by five individuals', by Eve Frances Lorgen

December 1998 (No 368): 'NBC Films Implant Removal', by Dr Leir

May 2000 'implant' Removals Yield Interesting Results', by Dr
Leir

Mufon July 2001 Symposium Proceedings: 'Alien abduction - Alien
implants. Why ?' by Dr Leir

UFO magazine (US), January 1999: 'NBC Special to air surgical
removal of purported implant, by Jack Carlson.

UFO Magazine (GB), May 2002: in the account of the Laughlin UFO
Congress, by Graham Birdsall.

Some videos are also available on the surgeries and conferences
of Dr Leir.

The summary of the scientific findings

For those who don't want to read any of these articles and
documents, let's try to make a very brief summary of the most
interesting findings. As seen in the list above, two main kinds
of implants were found , metallic, and non-metallic (little
balls). In his book, Roger Leir gives his summary of the
biological and metallurgical findings (pp 162 to 171).

1) Biological findings

About the metallic objects:

Four produced metallic objects covered by dark, grey, shiny
membranes that could not be opened with a surgical blade. This
membrane was shown to consist of protein coagulum, hemosiderin,
and keratin.

All three of these substances are naturally occurring in the
body, but our investigation has shown no record of this
combination in the medical litterature.

The soft tissues adjacent to the metallic objects underwent
analysis, and the findings demonstrated conglomerations of nerve
cells and a total lack of inflammatory response'.

About the non-metallic objects:

'Three of the surgeries consisted of the removal of a skin
lesion with an attached small BB-sized, greyish-white round ball
in the underlying soft tissue. We found solar elastosis,
clusters of nerve cells, and either minimal or no inflammation
present'. The skin lesion were of the 'scoop-mark' kind.

Dr Leir then lists a series of biological findings, among which:

- All objects were obtained from the left sides of the bodies.

- Almost all of the specimens fluoresced under ultraviolet black
light.

- All subjects showed abnormal reactions to procaine local
anesthetics (no reactions, or allergic reactions).

- All had a compulsion to absorbe a lot of salt.

In addition to that, it is to be noted that all appeared
'normal' according to a PhD psychologist.

2) Metallurgical findings

The main findings being on the internet (see links above, and
my previous messages on this List, of September 1 and 5), I
will just quote Dr Leir's book, about an interesting description
of the T-shaped object (in Patricia's foot): 'The T-shaped
object is composed of two small metallic rods. The horizontal
portion contains a magnetic iron core that is harder than the
finest carbide steel. A complex layer of elements covers the
core, forming a cladding. One portion of this cladding has a
cristalline band, which circles the rod. When viewing this rod,
as seen in the electronphotomicrograph, it appears to be
structured. One end is in the shape of a barb while the opposite
end is flat. In the center is a small depression. The shape of
this depression conforms exactly to the shape of one end of the
vertical rod. The vertical rod contains a similar cladding, but
the core is composed of carbon instead or iron and it is
magnetoconductive, but not magnetic'.

There are other interesting findings, but it would be too long
to list them all.

At least should be mentioned electromagnetic properties, notably
on Tim Cullen's implant, when the object was still in place in
the body. Dr Leir was assisted in this area by electronic
engineer Bob Beckwith, and Greg Avery, Mufon state director for
Mouisiana. First, with a simple Gaussmeter, they found a 6
milligauss reading. Then, in spite of some difficulties, they
were able to detect 'a pulse reading', which 'showed there was a
signal being generated and one being received by the object'
(see Mufon 2001 Proceedings, p. 194).

According to Dr Leir, further studies were done "by another
world-class laboratory in Texas", which revealed that the main
elemental component was iron, and, although it was amorphous,
they were amazed to find that it was highly magnetic. They
explained to Leir that "we have no such process for
accomplishing this feat".

The UFO connection
Eve Frances Lorgen has interviewed five of the persons subjected
to surgeries, and she found that "All persons, one male and four
females, shared one thing in common:

UFO encounters And Contact With Non-Human Alien Beings (MUFON
Journal, Nov. 1998).

The two more recent cases fall in that category as well. Tim
Cullen had a close encounter in 1978, when travelling in his car
with his wife. He talked about it only twenty years later when
he felt his children were old enough to hear about it. I met him
and found him very credible.

To conclude this short summary, I suggest that all readers of
this List should not to reject this research without serious
study.


Gildas Bourdais
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#6  Postby tnjrp » Nov 20, 2010 9:38 am

Oh dear. Seems to be more of the same old "yes sir, we do have evidence today" stuff with a side order of "buy the book!" and some outdated URLs. I suppose I have to try and dig up the juicy bits from three mentioned sites (http://www.alienscalpel.com/, http://www.nidsci.org/ and http://www.virtuallystrange.net/) when time permits...
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#7  Postby tnjrp » Dec 03, 2010 10:08 am

Finally had time to dig into this a bit more.

Turns out NIDS has disbanded back in 2004 and their site is just a placeholder. Can't find anything on Leir on VirtuallyStrange. Leir's own site doesn't yield the aforementioned letter of opinion from "metallurgic engineer" Fuierer, but there are two PDFs under "Research" that do seem to list the results of a metallurgical analysis but without any comments so I'm frankly at a complete loss as to what to make of them ...
http://www.alienscalpel.com/wp-content/ ... awData.pdf <-- BIG file!
http://www.alienscalpel.com/wp-content/ ... 110609.pdf <-- possibly a summary of the above?

Anybody..? :scratch:
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#8  Postby Darkchilde » Apr 11, 2011 7:33 am

I know the second link, and it was pointed out to me by NeedAnswers. It is teh same file without any analysis. There is nothing to indicate that the above is nothing more than an alloy we use in some industry or even a chunk of metal from the Earth or something. I think the lab report indicates an aluminum alloy, which is very commonly used with various elements like Nickel and Iron.

There is nothing to indicate it is of alien origin, as far as I can tell.
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#9  Postby zulumoose » Apr 11, 2011 7:50 am

I haven't looked through any of the links, but my first thought on reading this thread, especially when I read of the T shaped metallic implant, is that perhaps some of these things (assuming they are real) were IUD experiments that were ineffective, and they became embedded in the foetus.
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Re: Roger Leir, Derrel Sims and implants

#10  Postby tnjrp » Apr 11, 2011 8:27 am

I suppose that might not be entirely impossible, but I know very little of contraceptive devices :scratch:

---

Darkchilde wrote:I know the second link, and it was pointed out to me by NeedAnswers. It is teh same file without any analysis
Yep, it's turned out to be rather problematic to find the reportedly existing analyses of the above (and other) data.
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