Transcendence (and my debunking attempt)

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Transcendence (and my debunking attempt)

#1  Postby johannessiig » Feb 21, 2011 7:22 pm

First of all, what is transcendence? Well, in a nutshell, it is the sum (and the container) of all things supernatural. It is, by definition, outside the space-time continuum.

Wikipedia should clear things up nicely:
Wikipedia wrote:Transcendence (religion)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In religion, transcendence is a condition or state of being that surpasses physical existence and in one form is also independent of it. It is affirmed in the concept of the divine in the major religious traditions, and contrasts with the notion of God, or the Absolute, existing exclusively in the physical order (immanentism), or indistinguishable from it (pantheism).

So, the transcendence contains (or, rather, might contain) things like aliens, angels, gods, etc.

Everything that is not natural, is supernatural. However, everything that exists, is by definition, part of the natural. Therefore, we make the logical conclusion that the supernatural does, by definition, not have an existence.

Since transcendence is, by definition, the sum, and location of the supernatural (above the natural), then it, by definition, must either be empty, or not exist at all.

If god/aliens/angels/you name any irrational belief... is part of the transcendence, they either are, again, by definition, nothing, and/or don't exist.

Aliens: Special case.
The probability of aliens existing can be calculated via means of simple mathematics (the Drake equation). And, if aliens were to exist or to be found to exist, they would most likely be part of the natural (within the space-time continuum), therefore we should not assume they are a part of the transcendence, since it contains everything outside the space-time continuum.

Where is the fault in my reasoning?

All replies are greatly appreciated.
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Re: Transcendence (and my debunking attempt)

#2  Postby Garm » Feb 21, 2011 9:17 pm

According to that same Wikipedia article, the meaning of transcendence varies between various superstitions. What they have in common is the 'unknowable' - the claim that here are things extending or lying beyond the limits of ordinary experience, that there are things which are beyond our comprehension.

What always puzzles me about these claims is that we only have the ability to observe and explain natural phenomena, so how anyone could have any knowledge about these unknowable realms is beyond me. There is no evidence which suggests there are any worlds beyond a natural one.
~ Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. - Will Durant ~
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Re: Transcendence (and my debunking attempt)

#3  Postby HPrice » Feb 23, 2011 11:00 am

You cannot 'define away' an angel or any other weird phenomenon. It either exists or it does not. The matter can only be decided by evidence not philosophy or semantics. Philosophy is man's imperfect attempt to understand the universe. The universe does whatever it likes, regardless of what humans think about it.
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