Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#221  Postby archibald » Feb 27, 2019 4:35 pm

Oh never mind.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#222  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 27, 2019 5:59 pm

Destroyer wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Destroyer wrote:He seems to think that to discount so many is an injustice.


Injustice? To whom? And why? You don't know, do you? See also, "argument from popularity".


Obviously Fila considers that for so many eye witnesses to be dismissed, and not thought of as worthy to have their claims scientifically investigated, is an injustice. Many here have explained to him why it is not.


An injustice? How will we ever survive that?

Whether you agree or not, you have to admit it's funny, and nearly as funny as explaining why it isn't an injustice.

You and I should probably have a thread about justice, just to show how funny it is. What? You don't think justice is funny?
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#223  Postby archibald » Feb 27, 2019 8:40 pm

Laughter is the best medicine, so they say. For what ailment isn't always made clear, but I suppose it's obvious. Me, I do like a bit of a tonic when I'm self-medicating. Others prefer just ice. Boom boom.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#224  Postby LucidFlight » Feb 27, 2019 8:51 pm

Ice or tonic? Me, I prefer a sports drink.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#225  Postby felltoearth » Feb 27, 2019 10:00 pm

BlackBart wrote:Take a dinner plate and with a Sharpie draw a single point on it about an inch or so from the edge and about five hundredth the size of it's radius. That single point is how far our radio waves have travelled into our Galaxy in the last one hundred years. It would take more energy in that's available in the entire universe in order for a grain of sand to travel that distance in the same amount of time. And what do these extraterrestrials do with the glittering technology capable moving tons of mass greater distances in a fraction of that time? Scare the shit of some hillbillies, draw some giant graffiti in Chile and go joyriding over Belgium. Yeah, right.


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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#226  Postby Hermit » Feb 28, 2019 12:16 am

archibald wrote:Laughter is the best medicine, so they say. For what ailment isn't always made clear, but I suppose it's obvious. Me, I do like a bit of a tonic when I'm self-medicating. Others prefer just ice. Boom boom.

There ought to be just ice for everyone. Not gonna happen till hell freezes over, but.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#227  Postby Spearthrower » May 05, 2019 8:41 am

Fila wrote:I assume most scientists would agree that we are not alone in the universe.


Who is 'we'? If you mean humans, then we are demonstrably not alone in the universe: this planet is teeming with other living things - your digestive tract is teeming with other living things. So what you really want to talk about here is life on other planets, and probably intelligent life on other planets - and probably intelligent life on other planets that has or does visit Earth.

It's always vital in such discussions to work hard to be specific so that the few valid points don't get lost amidst fluff.

Consequent to that is another major problem: science isn't conducted by consensus alone. It doesn't matter if every scientist in the world believes X; they need to show X for it to be science. Any scientist that believes intelligent life on other planets has or does visit Earth isn't actually being a scientist while holding that position, so any authority they may have scientifically doesn't roll over into this statement.


Fila wrote:So why are aliens considered "not normal" within science?


Well, they're not considered 'not normal' - they're considered 'not empirically shown'.


Fila wrote:I understand its not normal for someone to see an alien.., so is that the "paranormal" part?


No, it's partly the lack of access to that observation for everyone else which makes it paranormal.


Fila wrote:If so;

1) What types of evidence is required by first hand witnesses.., in order to prompt a scientific investigation in order to gather sufficient data? (Images, video, written account....)

2) What types of evidence would be required by the scientific investigation to form a conclusion?
(I.e. An observation is made.., but it cannot be replicated on demand.)
And how much will be required to form a conclusion?

3) How would this type of evidence be acquired?
(Magnometer, seismograph, geigercounter, IR, radar, laser range finder, spectral readings etc etc)



1) I can't really answer that question as it depends on the first-hand witness. Presumably, whatever evidence convinces them of the thing they saw. What would prompt a valid scientific investigation is something empirical. Images, videos, and written accounts are reports, not the empirical quantity necessary to do anything. A bunch of even the most admirably efficacious scientists can't sit looking at a picture and then make scientific proclamations from it alone.

2) Not a conclusion, as that's philosophically troubling, but the answer is always the same for all science: empirical evidence. An observation made which cannot be replicated is no basis on which to do science. How much evidence is needed? Enough. Trite, perhaps, but also true.

3) No idea: what tools would be useful would depend entirely on the type of evidence available.


Fila wrote:I'm open to suggestions that credible / reputable UFO witnesses are merely experiencing some mental effect,...


Well, I should hope so given that if they weren't, they'd be brain dead! :)


Fila wrote:... however I have yet to see any paper forming a solid conclusion on this matter.


Hard to grasp what you mean here. You expect a paper which concludes that things people see are experiences of the mind? Or a paper which says that all reports of alien life-forms visiting Earth are hallucinatory?

It obviously falls foul of the same problem as the original notional scientists agreeing on something they can't test.


Fila wrote: Rather than dismissing the claims.., my intention is to look into them. I feel citizens deserve to be treated with respect.., and at least some kind of investigation should take place out of decency.


Looking into them isn't going to entail anything scientific. Treating people with respect does not mean lending scientific validity to their anecdotes.


Fila wrote:I'm also not interested in discussing previous UFO cases. I believe this is simply one form of early research.., but cannot be used to form conclusions about an entire topic. 80 years of these discussions (assumptions by both "sides") merely keeps the myth alive, with no actual answer. Witness testimony, images and radar returns are not conclusive evidence.., so there's no point in debating them.


Perhaps you've answered your own curiosity? 80 years of speculation hasn't actually offered anything tangible or empirically sound, buy yet the myth persists. This suggests it's unlikely that the speculations are grounded on anything other than the existence of the myth. It's also potentially enlightening that the notion of extra-planetary intelligent life visiting Earth coincides with human technological invention allowing us to conceive of visiting other planets.


Fila wrote:Let's be smarter.., and spend the next 80 years trying to find actual answers.., not reading stories and debating them.., as at best.., a good UFO story will only be that. Unidentified.


This doesn't appear to me to offer anything smarter. It's easy to appeal to being smarter, but maybe harder to actually do it. How do we go about finding 'actual answers'? Are we really sure there are any answers, or even actually any valid questions?


Fila wrote:So at best.., this old way will only yeild inconclusive results at best. AT BEST.
Its an obvious waste of time.


And the new way is what? How does this unstated new way differ from the old?
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#228  Postby Spearthrower » May 05, 2019 8:48 am

Fila wrote:
Yeesh, mood swings much? You go from making jokes, to getting angry in a split second. And refuse to provide substantial information, or participate in the discussion. I'm now convinced this website is not beneficial for rational, logical people like myself.


Honestly James, you may well be rational and logical, but your posts up to this point don't seem to offer any rational, logical approach to achieving what you state you want to achieve.

Let me attempt to show you by analogy.

A lot of people over the centuries have exhibited belief in pixies, gnomes, elves and various woodland sprites.

No evidence has yet established these beliefs as being in the provenance of science.

I want to change that by conducting science. What we need is a better way than the past of exploring this.

...

...

...

Do you see the bit that's missing? That's where I need to offer a better way of doing this. It's where I need to propose a new methodology for acquiring the evidence to make a scientific question out of the idea.

If I can't do that, it cannot be within the provenance of science, so as much as I might want to make it scientific, I can't without formulating a robust methodology for doing so.

Wanting something is not the same as making it happen.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#229  Postby Spearthrower » May 05, 2019 8:49 am

Fila wrote:I'll be using this thread as an example for the science forum.., thanks for the great content I can use to show how irrational UFO conversations are. You people don't even attempt to conduct sufficient research,, yet rely solely on pre-conceived assumptions to hastily form conclusions. And then speak with 100% confidence. Classic DKE behaviour.



In all honesty and with none of the hostility, isn't that exactly what you've done?
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#230  Postby Hermit » May 05, 2019 1:37 pm

Fila last visited Feb 22, 2019 11:27 pm ;)
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#231  Postby Spearthrower » May 05, 2019 1:43 pm

I know... but that doesn't stop them coming back! :)
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#232  Postby Blackadder » May 06, 2019 5:54 am

Hermit wrote:Fila last visited Feb 22, 2019 11:27 pm ;)


Perhaps he's been abducted?
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#233  Postby Spearthrower » May 06, 2019 6:36 am

Gaze too long into the abyss without an ordered and cogent methodology, and the abyss will gaze right back just as perplexed.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#234  Postby margotti » Apr 08, 2020 11:16 am

Because whether they are real or not is not well concreted and seeing an alien isn't normal.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#235  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 08, 2020 12:55 pm

margotti wrote:Because...


Should have stopped there.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#236  Postby chairman bill » Apr 08, 2020 1:33 pm

I think the scientifically interesting question is, Why do people imagine they've seen pixies/ghosts/aliens? We might add some subsidiary questions about anal-probing and abduction. Interestingly, people used to report being abducted by faeries and reported time discrepancies on their return, so this sort of thing has a long history.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#237  Postby Arcanyn » Apr 08, 2020 2:05 pm

margotti wrote:Because whether they are real or not is not well concreted and seeing an alien isn't normal.


Seeing an alligator in a tutu isn't normal either.
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#238  Postby chairman bill » Apr 08, 2020 2:27 pm

Arcanyn wrote:Seeing an alligator in a tutu isn't normal either.


You don't get invited to the right parties
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Re: Why are aliens considered "paranormal"?

#239  Postby Svartalf » Apr 08, 2020 4:00 pm

Arcanyn wrote:
margotti wrote:Because whether they are real or not is not well concreted and seeing an alien isn't normal.


Seeing an alligator in a tutu isn't normal either.

I saw it in a movie, so it must be a done thing.
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