A challenge to Philosomasizers

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A challenge to Philosomasizers

#1  Postby lobawad » Apr 17, 2012 9:34 am

Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.

As this is an internet forum, links to other media would be fine, and verbal descriptions of non-verbal expressions will patently have to do in certain cases. For example, to a claim that I do not exist, I would propose that I smack you upside the head as a counterargument, and so on.

Do a dance, drop your pants, plant some plants, toot your flute.

By "verbal" I'm specifically referring to what is known as "natural language". Math or some symbolic logic is fine- if you claim that A > ~A, let's see your supporting argument in the same symbolic language, and of course "natural language" explanation for those less versed in those languages is fine, as long as what is expressed is expressed in that symbolic language.

edited for spellllling.
Last edited by lobawad on Apr 17, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#2  Postby Doubtdispelled » Apr 17, 2012 10:07 am

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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#3  Postby lobawad » Apr 17, 2012 10:33 am

Doubtdispelled wrote:Image


:thumbup:
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#4  Postby UndercoverElephant » Apr 17, 2012 10:46 am

lobawad wrote:Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.


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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#5  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2012 1:18 pm

UndercoverElephant wrote:
lobawad wrote:Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.


Image


Ah, a simulation, but in not so many words. A two-dimensional simulation. Of spoon-bending! Or should we call it a 'stimulation'? Prepare to jettison!
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#6  Postby Regina » Apr 17, 2012 1:34 pm

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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#7  Postby UndercoverElephant » Apr 17, 2012 1:36 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
lobawad wrote:Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.


Image


Ah, a simulation, but in not so many words. A two-dimensional simulation. Of spoon-bending! Or should we call it a 'stimulation'? Prepare to jettison!


Err....eh?

Simulation?

Spoon-bending??
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#8  Postby Regina » Apr 17, 2012 1:45 pm

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
lobawad wrote:Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.


Image


Ah, a simulation, but in not so many words. A two-dimensional simulation. Of spoon-bending! Or should we call it a 'stimulation'? Prepare to jettison!


Err....eh?

Simulation?

Spoon-bending??

UE, if you've really, really got nothing better to do, this might shed some light on your question, or rather the answer.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/philo ... l#p1281772
But only if you got nothing better to do, start reading there.
:P
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#9  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2012 1:54 pm

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
lobawad wrote:Let's have idealism, solipsism, pick your ism, jettison your jism, expressed in a non-verbal manner.


Image


Ah, a simulation, but in not so many words. A two-dimensional simulation. Of spoon-bending! Or should we call it a 'stimulation'? Prepare to jettison!


Err....eh?

Simulation?

Spoon-bending??


I think lobawad's challenge is a bit disingenuous, but works as a kind of object-lesson. I've always really liked that animation, but I don't know exactly why. I like the colours and the sinusoidal repetition, but I'm not about to hypnotise myself with it.

It's a two-dimensional simulation of, among other things, the way opaque solid objects eclipse each other in three dimensions, but it depends on that (and a specified angle to the illumination of the objects) to look cool. Basic facts for draughtsmen.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#10  Postby amkerman » Apr 17, 2012 2:18 pm

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Bring me gold and bring me wisdom- give me scars to bring me grace.

A wicked wit and when I use it I dash the hopes of those who hate me.

Give me love- big as a mountain.

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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#11  Postby UndercoverElephant » Apr 17, 2012 3:28 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:

Image


Ah, a simulation, but in not so many words. A two-dimensional simulation. Of spoon-bending! Or should we call it a 'stimulation'? Prepare to jettison!


Err....eh?

Simulation?

Spoon-bending??


I think lobawad's challenge is a bit disingenuous, but works as a kind of object-lesson. I've always really liked that animation, but I don't know exactly why. I like the colours and the sinusoidal repetition, but I'm not about to hypnotise myself with it.

It's a two-dimensional simulation of, among other things, the way opaque solid objects eclipse each other in three dimensions, but it depends on that (and a specified angle to the illumination of the objects) to look cool. Basic facts for draughtsmen.



OK. Shall we make it easier?

Image

This is a diagram, designed for the precise purpose of responding to what was asked in the opening post.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#12  Postby Matthew Shute » Apr 17, 2012 4:12 pm

UndercoverElephant wrote:
OK. Shall we make it easier?

Image

This is a diagram, designed for the precise purpose of responding to what was asked in the opening post.


Image
Now that's a "cool-looking" diagram. Can anyone here translate the Chinese text, though, please? It could be a list of rice dish recipes for all know. I'm rather woefully ignorant about philosophical Taoism, except that there's obviously something about an interplay of opposites "in the Tao". Maybe it's an aesthetic system; people mention "harmony" a lot when they cite Taoism. Perhaps someone knowledgeable should start a "philosophy of Taoism" thread.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#13  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2012 4:16 pm

UndercoverElephant wrote:
This is a diagram, designed for the precise purpose of responding to what was asked in the opening post.


What? Reality can be represented as a stylised plate of fried eggs floating on a miasma of grape jam and marmalade? :dance:

"Metaphysics":

Image
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#14  Postby Regina » Apr 17, 2012 4:30 pm

Cito wrote:

What? Reality can be represented as a stylised plate of fried eggs floating on a miasma of grape jam and marmalade? :dance:

Yep. And World Mind is the frying pan.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#15  Postby Animavore » Apr 17, 2012 4:31 pm

The Tao symbol looks cool an' all but I've two problems.

The symbol is symmetric but good and 'evil' aren't. There's a lot more ways to harm than to aid. So if I were to design my own I would choose a chord a third of the way between the diameter and outermost edge, parallel, and do my two equal-sized, ajoining circles on that line and colour the larger side black. The smaller circles at their centre would remain the same size.

Secondly, in Taoism this symbol is used to represent the universe as a whole. They make the classic mistake of projecting mankind on to the cosmos. I would need another circle for the universe. A blank one, not even white, with no boundry.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#16  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2012 4:41 pm

Regina wrote:
Cito wrote:

What? Reality can be represented as a stylised plate of fried eggs floating on a miasma of grape jam and marmalade? :dance:

Yep. And World Mind is the frying pan.
Image


Pan theism?

To paraphrase Freud, "Where ID (Intelligent Design) was, there Eggo™ shall be." My mind is toast.

Questions that beg, questions that beg, these are the gods that unscramble the egg.

And... where are the Big Bangers to go with the egg and toast?
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#17  Postby Regina » Apr 17, 2012 4:47 pm

Cito wrote:

Pan theism?

:lol:
Yep. It all started in World Mind's kitchen.
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#18  Postby Matthew Shute » Apr 17, 2012 4:48 pm

Animavore wrote:The symbol is symmetric but good and 'evil' aren't.


"Good is a point of view, Anakinimavore."

:evilgrin: :vampire:
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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#19  Postby UndercoverElephant » Apr 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Animavore wrote:The Tao symbol looks cool an' all but I've two problems.

The symbol is symmetric but good and 'evil' aren't.


Lao Tsu wrote:
When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever.




Secondly, in Taoism this symbol is used to represent the universe as a whole. They make the classic mistake of projecting mankind on to the cosmos.


There is no anthropomorophism in Taoism.


I would need another circle for the universe. A blank one, not even white, with no boundry.


http://seansturm.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... -to-wanwu/

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Re: A challenge to Philosomasizers

#20  Postby Shrunk » Apr 17, 2012 5:01 pm

amkerman wrote:Image


Is she turning to the left, or to the right? And once you've decided, can you make her turn in the other direction?
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