A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

on fundamental matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind and ethics.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#21  Postby Animavore » Feb 24, 2018 9:24 am

I'm sure he's in a hole in the ground somewhere.
A most evolved electron.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: The Scribbler
Posts: 44377
Age: 42
Male

Ireland (ie)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#22  Postby GrahamH » Feb 24, 2018 10:18 am

jamest wrote:
I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.


Being "the Word" I would expect "the Christ" to use words to work his miracles in people's hearts. He would probably use the fora of the day to spread the word (i.e. internet forums today) by starting provocative but subtle discussions encouraging reflection on the nature of God, humanity and reality. And he would have a plentiful supply of robes and sandals available for those open and intelligent enough to become his disciples.
And, of course, the Christ will be mocked and denied tortured for our sins.
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 20399

Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#23  Postby BlackBart » Feb 24, 2018 10:28 am

Next week; What would you expect Unicorn shit to smell like?

But, seriously, I'd expect a 'God' to come up with a far better strategy for 'creation' than playing real-life Populous (be it Idealistic or materialistic) in the first place. What kind of creature comes up with a system that involves cancer, concentration camps and poor hapless souls impotently railing at people that they don't know on the internet at 3am?
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12172
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#24  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 24, 2018 11:09 am

I dont expect anything of a god. Why should I?
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 71
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#25  Postby LucidFlight » Feb 24, 2018 1:48 pm

jamest wrote:I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

As part of a UX development workflow analysis, I would have to consider various personas of Christ, depending on when He was resurrected, where He's been living, and what access to technology He has. Assuming a recently-resurrected Christ, say, born during the 90s, the chances that He has access to the Internet are quite high, especially if living in a modern, Western society.

With this in mind, the user journey I envisage for Him purchasing fish and bread online might involve a standard shopping cart scenario, implemented on a broad range of modern internet browsers. I suspect that Christ might be Apple user, very much in tune with a digital ecosystem that involves tablets, mobile devices, and perhaps a laptop for the studio (where Christ would be writing His upcoming bestseller, "The Bible, Part II").

As a charitable person, he would be out doing lots of good things around His neighbourhood: feeding the poor, helping the elderly, finding lost cats, etc. Christ needs a convenient way of buying his daily supplies of bread, wine, and fish. I imagine a login facility with one-button re-ordering should be mandatory as part of His online purchasing experience. He would also need real-time inventory of robes and sandals, integrated with a same-day delivery system and customer order tracking.
OFFICIAL MEMBER: QUANTUM CONSTRUCTOR CONSCIOUSNESS QUALIA KOALA COLLECTIVE.
User avatar
LucidFlight
RS Donator
 
Name: Kento
Posts: 10801
Male

Country: UK/US/AU/SG
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#26  Postby BlackBart » Feb 24, 2018 2:55 pm

Jesus without his 'magic' would just be a bloke who did a bit of fishing and hung around with a prostitute. In this day and age that would mean half the arseholes in Penge would qualify.
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12172
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#27  Postby John Platko » Feb 24, 2018 3:43 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:If one ignores the negative characteristics of Christs behaviour in the Gospels and instead focused only on the positive ones
I would expect to see both humility and wisdom. But conveniently ignoring the negatives would not be truly representative
of him however so I would have to include them as well. For me though the question is academic because even if Jesus did exist he was just a human being and no more Messianic than anyone else


What are all the negative characteristics of the Christ behaviour in the Gospels?
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#28  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 24, 2018 4:12 pm

You mean aside from attacking innocent people in the market? And telling people to abandon their families? And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 14393
Age: 40
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#29  Postby Matthew Shute » Feb 24, 2018 4:41 pm

Thommo wrote:For my own part, if someone I knew well had been dead and entombed for a few days, then got up and started walking about and letting me put my hand inside his gaping wounds, then I'd certainly take his claims of divinity seriously.


Frank from Hellraiser was "dead" for longer than that, if I recall. Still one heck of an untrustworthy character.

[Reveal] Spoiler: "NSFW"
"Change will preserve us. It is the lifeblood of the Isles. It will move mountains! It will mount movements!" - Sheogorath
User avatar
Matthew Shute
 
Name: Matthew Shute
Posts: 3676
Age: 42

Antarctica (aq)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#30  Postby laklak » Feb 24, 2018 5:17 pm

Plenty of Christs around, Charlie Manson springs to mind, or Jim Jones. There's a Christ born every minute, and two to follow him.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
laklak
RS Donator
 
Name: Florida Man
Posts: 20804
Age: 66
Male

Country: The Great Satan
Swaziland (sz)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#31  Postby Matthew Shute » Feb 24, 2018 5:46 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: "NSFW"


"Change will preserve us. It is the lifeblood of the Isles. It will move mountains! It will mount movements!" - Sheogorath
User avatar
Matthew Shute
 
Name: Matthew Shute
Posts: 3676
Age: 42

Antarctica (aq)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#32  Postby BWE » Feb 24, 2018 8:15 pm

jamest wrote:My wandering mind leads me all over the place, including [now] to this thought: that there are more ways than one to pinpoint a Christ.

... I mean, let's leave out the 'physical evidence' of miracles, which no doubt most of you here would consider bullshit anyway. David Blaine stuff, or whatever, if not outright lies.

I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

I mean, you obviously have to be open-minded in this thread and therefore retract any surety in your physicalist beliefs, but this is the philosophy forum so what the hell.

Beyond physical miracles, what would you expect of the The Christ? This is a genuine question, so spare me the BS. I'm so tired of the BS.

No idea. None whatsoever. I could maybe identify a buddha, but a christ? what even is a christ?

according to wiki, this:
In Christianity, Christ[Notes 1] (Greek Χριστός, Christós, meaning "the anointed one") is a title for the saviour and redeemer who would bring salvation to the Jewish people and mankind. Christians believe that Jesus is the Jewish messiah called Christ in both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. Christ, used by Christians as both a name and a title, is synonymous with Jesus.[5][6][7]

The role of the Christ in Christianity originated from the concept of the messiah in Judaism. Though the conceptions of the messiah in each religion are similar, for the most part they are distinct from one another due to the split of early Christianity and Judaism in the 1st century.

Though the original followers of Jesus believed Jesus to be the Jewish messiah, e.g. in the Confession of Peter, before the crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus was usually referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth" or "Jesus, son of Joseph".[8] Jesus came to be called "Jesus Christ" (meaning "Jesus the Khristós", i.e. "Jesus the Messiah" or "Jesus the Anointed") by his followers after his crucifixion and resurrection. Christians believe that the messianic prophecies were fulfilled in his mission, death, and resurrection. The Pauline epistles, the earliest texts of the New Testament,[9] often refer to Jesus as "Christ Jesus" or "Christ".[10] The word Christ was originally a title, but later became part of the name "Jesus Christ". It is, however, still also used as a title, in the reciprocal use "Christ Jesus", meaning "the Messiah Jesus", and independently as "the Christ".[11]

The followers of Jesus became known as Christians (as in Acts 11:26) because they believed Jesus to be the Khristós or Mashiach prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.[12][13] Jesus was not, and is not, accepted in Judaism as a Jewish messiah, and the concept of a divine messiah was always rejected by Judaism as idolatry.[14] Religious Jews still await their messiah's first coming and the Messianic prophecies of Jewish tradition to be accomplished. Religious Christians believe in the Second Coming of Christ, and they await the rest of Christian messianic prophecies to be fulfilled.[15] One of those prophecies, distinctive in both the Jewish and Christian concept of the messiah, is that a Jewish king from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil, will be king of God's kingdom on earth, and rule the Jewish people and mankind during the Messianic Age and World to come.[16] Muslims accept Jesus (Arabic: عيسى‎, translit. ʿĪsā) as al-Masih, the messiah in Islam, and believe he will come again[17], but don't believe that the messiah is divine or the Son of God.

The area of Christian theology called Christology is primarily concerned with the nature and person of Jesus Christ as recorded in the canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament.[18]


means basically nothing without assuming some bronze age religious stuff first. No?
User avatar
BWE
 
Posts: 2493

Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#33  Postby John Platko » Feb 24, 2018 8:26 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:You mean aside from attacking innocent people in the market?


:scratch: What innocent people did JC attack? Surely you don't me the con artists who were ripping off
poor people.


And telling people to abandon their families?


You mean?
from
Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.


It seems like he was just telling them how it is - a take it or leave it thing. Now a reasonable person can question the wisdom of following his advice and against the grain social interactions. And this notion of "loving him more than ..." - well I can see how one can view that problematically - especially if one thinks of JC as someone in a normal human state. But fair enough, it might be best for beings in human bodies not to say such things - even if they are true.

Maybe if he phrased it: "Look, if you're going to be as I am then you're going to have to love the way I am more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, even more than your own life because your family, like my family, will likely think you :crazy: if you talk and act like me, and running around and doing the things I do is likely going to get you killed. That's what I think he meant to say.



And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?


I think that was more about defending the woman who the disciples were embarrassing than worrying about his odor issues.

Got anything else?
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#34  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 24, 2018 8:39 pm

John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:You mean aside from attacking innocent people in the market?


:scratch: What innocent people did JC attack? Surely you don't me the con artists who were ripping off
poor people.

I believe their actual descriptions were "merchants and money changers", but thanks for putting your own personal spin on it.


And telling people to abandon their families?


You mean?
from
Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.


It seems like he was just telling them how it is - a take it or leave it thing. Now a reasonable person can question the wisdom of following his advice and against the grain social interactions. And this notion of "loving him more than ..." - well I can see how one can view that problematically - especially if one thinks of JC as someone in a normal human state. But fair enough, it might be best for beings in human bodies not to say such things - even if they are true.

Maybe if he phrased it: "Look, if you're going to be as I am then you're going to have to love the way I am more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, even more than your own life because your family, like my family, will likely think you :crazy: if you talk and act like me, and running around and doing the things I do is likely going to get you killed. That's what I think he meant to say.

Any way you spin it, he's telling people to abandon their families to follow him. One can certainly question the wisdom of that.



And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?


I think that was more about defending the woman who the disciples were embarrassing than worrying about his odor issues.

Defending the woman by telling his followers that there's no point in helping the poor because they'll always be there. Uh huh.

Got anything else?

No, I think your strained defense of those is enough.
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 14393
Age: 40
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#35  Postby John Platko » Feb 24, 2018 9:09 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:You mean aside from attacking innocent people in the market?


:scratch: What innocent people did JC attack? Surely you don't me the con artists who were ripping off
poor people.

I believe their actual descriptions were "merchants and money changers", but thanks for putting your own personal spin on it.


And telling people to abandon their families?


You mean?


Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.


It seems like he was just telling them how it is - a take it or leave it thing. Now a reasonable person can question the wisdom of following his advice and against the grain social interactions. And this notion of "loving him more than ..." - well I can see how one can view that problematically - especially if one thinks of JC as someone in a normal human state. But fair enough, it might be best for beings in human bodies not to say such things - even if they are true.

Maybe if he phrased it: "Look, if you're going to be as I am then you're going to have to love the way I am more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, even more than your own life because your family, like my family, will likely think you :crazy: if you talk and act like me, and running around and doing the things I do is likely going to get you killed. That's what I think he meant to say.

Any way you spin it, he's telling people to abandon their families to follow him. One can certainly question the wisdom of that.



I certainly think one can question the wisdom of doing as he did with the likely consequences that one might expect from doing so. It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".



And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?


I think that was more about defending the woman who the disciples were embarrassing than worrying about his odor issues.

Defending the woman by telling his followers that there's no point in helping the poor because they'll always be there. Uh huh.



It doesn't sound like it went down that way to me:

Jesus Anointed at Bethany
3 bAnd while he was at cBethany in the house of Simon the leper,1 as he was reclining at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head. 4 There were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment wasted like that? 5 For this ointment could have been sold for more than three hundred denarii2 and dgiven to the poor.” And they escolded her. 6 But Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 For fyou always have the poor with you, and whenever gyou want, you can do good for them. But hyou will not always have me. 8 iShe has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand jfor burial. 9 And truly, I say to you, wherever kthe gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told lin memory of her.”





Got anything else?

No, I think your strained defense of those is enough.


If that's the worst he did then it's not much to complain about. Being a rational skeptic can seperate you from your family if they are hell bent on their indefensible religious ideas but would you tell someone to stick to their religious script so that they don't ruffle their family feathers?
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#36  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 24, 2018 9:24 pm

John Platko wrote:It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".


On a spatial scale of 200 Mpc, the universe is homogeneous and isotropic. On that scale, the story is meaningless; modern cosmology tells you there is not a privileged location and perspective, such as yours or what you'd call anything. Given that, finding Christ is kind of a dipshit project.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Placebo Domingo
Posts: 29389
Age: 23
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#37  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 24, 2018 9:43 pm

John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:You mean aside from attacking innocent people in the market?


:scratch: What innocent people did JC attack? Surely you don't me the con artists who were ripping off
poor people.

I believe their actual descriptions were "merchants and money changers", but thanks for putting your own personal spin on it.


And telling people to abandon their families?


You mean?


Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.


It seems like he was just telling them how it is - a take it or leave it thing. Now a reasonable person can question the wisdom of following his advice and against the grain social interactions. And this notion of "loving him more than ..." - well I can see how one can view that problematically - especially if one thinks of JC as someone in a normal human state. But fair enough, it might be best for beings in human bodies not to say such things - even if they are true.

Maybe if he phrased it: "Look, if you're going to be as I am then you're going to have to love the way I am more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, even more than your own life because your family, like my family, will likely think you :crazy: if you talk and act like me, and running around and doing the things I do is likely going to get you killed. That's what I think he meant to say.

Any way you spin it, he's telling people to abandon their families to follow him. One can certainly question the wisdom of that.



I certainly think one can question the wisdom of doing as he did with the likely consequences that one might expect from doing so. It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".

That you speak of abandoning women and children as "going against the grain of society" as if it were some noble act tells everyone everything they need to know about your perspective, I think.




And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?


I think that was more about defending the woman who the disciples were embarrassing than worrying about his odor issues.

Defending the woman by telling his followers that there's no point in helping the poor because they'll always be there. Uh huh.



It doesn't sound like it went down that way to me:

Jesus Anointed at Bethany
3 bAnd while he was at cBethany in the house of Simon the leper,1 as he was reclining at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head. 4 There were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment wasted like that? 5 For this ointment could have been sold for more than three hundred denarii2 and dgiven to the poor.” And they escolded her. 6 But Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 For fyou always have the poor with you, and whenever gyou want, you can do good for them. But hyou will not always have me. 8 iShe has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand jfor burial. 9 And truly, I say to you, wherever kthe gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told lin memory of her.”


Then you better read it again, because that's exactly what it says. "Do it some other time when I'm not about to get special treatment" isn't a good argument any way you slice it.



Got anything else?

No, I think your strained defense of those is enough.


If that's the worst he did then it's not much to complain about.

Well I don't know where you live where convincing people to abandon their families, physical assault and dismissing the poor are no big deal. Around here and pretty much everywhere I've lived, that would be considered extremely shitty behavior.

Being a rational skeptic can seperate you from your family if they are hell bent on their indefensible religious ideas but would you tell someone to stick to their religious script so that they don't ruffle their family feathers?

The fact that you see not leaving your family high and dry as "sticking to the script" is fucking heinous. Becoming separated from your family because of strong disagreements isn't the same as a guy demanding you abandon your family or else you don't get his special spirit sauce.
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 14393
Age: 40
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#38  Postby John Platko » Feb 24, 2018 11:21 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
John Platko wrote:It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".


On a spatial scale of 200 Mpc, the universe is homogeneous and isotropic. On that scale, the story is meaningless; modern cosmology tells you there is not a privileged location and perspective, such as yours or what you'd call anything. Given that, finding Christ is kind of a dipshit project.


From your 200 Mpc perspective, aren't all projects dipshit projects?
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#39  Postby John Platko » Feb 24, 2018 11:43 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
John Platko wrote:

:scratch: What innocent people did JC attack? Surely you don't me the con artists who were ripping off
poor people.

I believe their actual descriptions were "merchants and money changers", but thanks for putting your own personal spin on it.



You mean?




It seems like he was just telling them how it is - a take it or leave it thing. Now a reasonable person can question the wisdom of following his advice and against the grain social interactions. And this notion of "loving him more than ..." - well I can see how one can view that problematically - especially if one thinks of JC as someone in a normal human state. But fair enough, it might be best for beings in human bodies not to say such things - even if they are true.

Maybe if he phrased it: "Look, if you're going to be as I am then you're going to have to love the way I am more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, even more than your own life because your family, like my family, will likely think you :crazy: if you talk and act like me, and running around and doing the things I do is likely going to get you killed. That's what I think he meant to say.

Any way you spin it, he's telling people to abandon their families to follow him. One can certainly question the wisdom of that.



I certainly think one can question the wisdom of doing as he did with the likely consequences that one might expect from doing so. It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".

That you speak of abandoning women and children as "going against the grain of society" as if it were some noble act tells everyone everything they need to know about your perspective, I think.




And poo-poohing the poor so he could get perfumed?


I think that was more about defending the woman who the disciples were embarrassing than worrying about his odor issues.

Defending the woman by telling his followers that there's no point in helping the poor because they'll always be there. Uh huh.



It doesn't sound like it went down that way to me:

Jesus Anointed at Bethany
3 bAnd while he was at cBethany in the house of Simon the leper,1 as he was reclining at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head. 4 There were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment wasted like that? 5 For this ointment could have been sold for more than three hundred denarii2 and dgiven to the poor.” And they escolded her. 6 But Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 For fyou always have the poor with you, and whenever gyou want, you can do good for them. But hyou will not always have me. 8 iShe has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand jfor burial. 9 And truly, I say to you, wherever kthe gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told lin memory of her.”


Then you better read it again, because that's exactly what it says. "Do it some other time when I'm not about to get special treatment" isn't a good argument any way you slice it.


:nono: That's not what it says, it says:
For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you want, you can do good for them.


They didn't need that perfume to go out and do good for the poor. :picard:



Well I don't know where you live where convincing people to abandon their families, physical assault and dismissing the poor are no big deal. Around here and pretty much everywhere I've lived, that would be considered extremely shitty behavior.


Around where I live JC doesn't have much of a reputation for "dismissing the poor". And he's generally thought of as being non violent. And pretty much a kind and loving sort of bloke. But, it's true that those who lost profits weren't too happy with how he cut into their profits that day and they seemed to think a death sentence was the appropriate punishment.


Being a rational skeptic can seperate you from your family if they are hell bent on their indefensible religious ideas but would you tell someone to stick to their religious script so that they don't ruffle their family feathers?

The fact that you see not leaving your family high and dry as "sticking to the script" is fucking heinous. Becoming separated from your family because of strong disagreements isn't the same as a guy demanding you abandon your family or else you don't get his special spirit sauce.


It's not like you'll necessarily be the one leaving your family if you decide not to stick to the religious script. Many a religious family can't handle someone questioning if a virgin birth actually happened. Some can't handle saying the earth is billions of years old. For some, evolution is - well forget about it. JC was just pointing out that if you want to break out of a family denial system, you better be prepared for the reality that doing so may also break up your family. That's just the way things work with humans on planet earth, that's not JC's fault - unless you believe he was the creator of all- and then I guess it is.
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

#40  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 25, 2018 12:20 am

John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
John Platko wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I believe their actual descriptions were "merchants and money changers", but thanks for putting your own personal spin on it.

Any way you spin it, he's telling people to abandon their families to follow him. One can certainly question the wisdom of that.



I certainly think one can question the wisdom of doing as he did with the likely consequences that one might expect from doing so. It's not easy to go against the grain of any society. But I don't know if I'd call that a "negative characteristics of Christs behaviour".

That you speak of abandoning women and children as "going against the grain of society" as if it were some noble act tells everyone everything they need to know about your perspective, I think.




Defending the woman by telling his followers that there's no point in helping the poor because they'll always be there. Uh huh.



It doesn't sound like it went down that way to me:

Jesus Anointed at Bethany
3 bAnd while he was at cBethany in the house of Simon the leper,1 as he was reclining at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head. 4 There were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment wasted like that? 5 For this ointment could have been sold for more than three hundred denarii2 and dgiven to the poor.” And they escolded her. 6 But Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 For fyou always have the poor with you, and whenever gyou want, you can do good for them. But hyou will not always have me. 8 iShe has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand jfor burial. 9 And truly, I say to you, wherever kthe gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told lin memory of her.”


Then you better read it again, because that's exactly what it says. "Do it some other time when I'm not about to get special treatment" isn't a good argument any way you slice it.


:nono: That's not what it says, it says:
For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you want, you can do good for them.


They didn't need that perfume to go out and do good for the poor. :picard:

Save that Picard for yourself. Need has nothing to do with it. Apparently they can't whenever they want, because Jesus wants his precious perfume right now, dammit! And fuck those poor people when Jesus wants his perfume :lol:


Well I don't know where you live where convincing people to abandon their families, physical assault and dismissing the poor are no big deal. Around here and pretty much everywhere I've lived, that would be considered extremely shitty behavior.


Around where I live JC doesn't have much of a reputation for "dismissing the poor". And he's generally thought of as being non violent. And pretty much a kind and loving sort of bloke. But, it's true that those who lost profits weren't too happy with how he cut into their profits that day and they seemed to think a death sentence was the appropriate punishment.


Hey, it's not my fault if you and others don't actually read the book and ascribe a false reputation to him. Here, for instance, you're making the people who were peacefully sitting and selling their wares out to be villainous money grubbers in an attempt to justify Jesus' violence. Truly, there isn't a position so self-serving that a Jesus apologist won't adapt it. If some guy in your neighborhood was going around physically attacking people working in stores, it would be justice if he were arrested for it. Or perhaps you'd say he's just "not following the narrative"? :lol:



Being a rational skeptic can seperate you from your family if they are hell bent on their indefensible religious ideas but would you tell someone to stick to their religious script so that they don't ruffle their family feathers?

The fact that you see not leaving your family high and dry as "sticking to the script" is fucking heinous. Becoming separated from your family because of strong disagreements isn't the same as a guy demanding you abandon your family or else you don't get his special spirit sauce.


It's not like you'll necessarily be the one leaving your family if you decide not to stick to the religious script. Many a religious family can't handle someone questioning if a virgin birth actually happened. Some can't handle saying the earth is billions of years old. For some, evolution is - well forget about it. JC was just pointing out that if you want to break out of a family denial system, you better be prepared for the reality that doing so may also break up your family. That's just the way things work with humans on planet earth, that's not JC's fault - unless you believe he was the creator of all- and then I guess it is.

That's completely pulled out of your ass for all the relevance it has to that scripture. It doesn't say anything about conflicts within their families, it just demands they abandon their families and follow him if they want his special spirit sauce. Your apologetics are farcical.
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 14393
Age: 40
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest