Colour

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Re: Colour

#801  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 11:09 am

Yes, the strawberries look red ( a rather bluish-red). The very reason that picture has been so widely circulated is because people see red. Ditto for the black/blue/white/gold dress where people are convinced it is one or the other colour combination.
I think it is more because the background is so un-red more than an internal model of what colour strawberries should be.
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Re: Colour

#802  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 11:21 am

GrahamH wrote:Yes, the strawberries look red ( a rather bluish-red). The very reason that picture has been so widely circulated is because people see red. Ditto for the black/blue/white/gold dress where people are convinced it is one or the other colour combination.
I think it is more because the background is so in-red more than an internal model of what colour strawberries should be.

They still look grey-blue to me, I'm afraid, not in the least red.
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Re: Colour

#803  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 11:23 am

Are you claiming to have conscious control over your visual cortex or retinae? That would be interesting.
Either that, or a vision defect.
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Re: Colour

#804  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 11:56 am

DavidMcC wrote:
GrahamH wrote:Yes, the strawberries look red ( a rather bluish-red). The very reason that picture has been so widely circulated is because people see red. Ditto for the black/blue/white/gold dress where people are convinced it is one or the other colour combination.
I think it is more because the background is so in-red more than an internal model of what colour strawberries should be.

They still look grey-blue to me, I'm afraid, not in the least red.


So? perception varies. Don't assume you are representative or that everyone sees the same.

Just out of interest, how did you see the dress?
Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress

Interestingly I originally saw it as clearly blue/black and now it looks white/gold
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Re: Colour

#805  Postby scott1328 » Aug 17, 2017 12:17 pm

I perceive those strawberries as red seen through a blue filter. And so does most of the internet.
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Re: Colour

#806  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Graham, I don't assume that everyone''s colour vision is the same, that is why I mentioned colour vision defects, which do occur.
On the dress (which was shown a few years ago), I see it as black and blue. IIRC, one of the fashion mags that took a photo of this same dress evidently seriously over-exposed the photo, so that the blue looked white and the black looked gold. Lots of people then thought that their colour vision must be awry! The only thng that was awry was the exposure.
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Re: Colour

#807  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 12:28 pm

... BTW Graham, your Wiki link on the dress is broken. Fortunately, I remember the basic story and pictures.
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Re: Colour

#808  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 12:43 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Graham, I don't assume that everyone''s colour vision is the same, that is why I mentioned colour vision defects, which do occur.
On the dress (which was shown a few years ago), I see it as black and blue. IIRC, one of the fashion mags that took a photo of this same dress evidently seriously over-exposed the photo, so that the blue looked white and the black looked gold. Lots of people then thought that their colour vision must be awry! The only thng that was awry was the exposure.


It's not 'defects' :nono:

Lots of people thought, as you evidently do, that their own experience must be correct and everyone else must be defective. :naughty:
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Re: Colour

#809  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 12:50 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Graham, I don't assume that everyone''s colour vision is the same, that is why I mentioned colour vision defects, which do occur.
On the dress (which was shown a few years ago), I see it as black and blue. IIRC, one of the fashion mags that took a photo of this same dress evidently seriously over-exposed the photo, so that the blue looked white and the black looked gold. Lots of people then thought that their colour vision must be awry! The only thng that was awry was the exposure.


Spectacular way to miss the point David. :nono:
The point is not that " the blue looked white and the black looked gold" but that the colours were ambiguous and some people perceived it very clearly one way and others saw it the other way. The photo itself was not objectively either one nor the other. Many many people could not believe that anyone saw it the other way to the way they saw it.
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Re: Colour

#810  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 12:52 pm

synaesthesia
BTW, Met, have you considered the possibility that you have some form of synaesthesia? ideasthesia, perhaps?
PS, I'm taking the last line of your post above as just another (failed) wind-up attempt, because it is fairly obviously that normal colour vision does not involve seeing only what you expect, or want to see.
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Re: Colour

#811  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 12:59 pm

DavidMcC wrote:synaesthesia
BTW, Met, have you considered the possibility that you have some form of synaesthesia? ideasthesia, perhaps?
PS, I'm taking the last line of your post above as just another (failed) wind-up attempt, because it is fairly obviously that normal colour vision does not involve seeing only what you expect, or want to see.


Don't misrepresent me. I have notI said that "normal colour vision does not involve seeing only what you expect, or want to see"?
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Re: Colour

#812  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 1:09 pm

OK, so you think it's normal to see the colours you expect to see, and not the actual colours. Wow! Does that mean that colours change for you, even without any external physical cause for it?
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Re: Colour

#813  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 1:11 pm

... Oh, wait, people who do trips may have vision issues as a result.
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Re: Colour

#814  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 1:23 pm

DavidMcC wrote:OK, so you think it's normal to see the colours you expect to see, and not the actual colours. Wow! Does that mean that colours change for you, even without any external physical cause for it?


Stop it! I said nothing of the sort. Your previous post implies I it and it's wrong and now you post a suggestion that rejecting your false implication amounts to my agreeing with what you implied. I do not. An apology will be acceptable.
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Re: Colour

#815  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 1:33 pm

Apologies not coming just yet, until I've got more clarity over your apparent support for people claiming to see grey strawberries as red, while denying that they have any vision issues!
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Re: Colour

#816  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 2:17 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Apologies not coming just yet, until I've got more clarity over your apparent support for people claiming to see grey strawberries as red, while denying that they have any vision issues!


Since you seem to be unaware of what you have posted here's a reminder:

DavidMcC wrote:
GrahamH wrote:Yes, the strawberries look red ( a rather bluish-red). The very reason that picture has been so widely circulated is because people see red. Ditto for the black/blue/white/gold dress where people are convinced it is one or the other colour combination.
I think it is more because the background is so un-red more than an internal model of what colour strawberries should be.

They still look grey-blue to me, I'm afraid, not in the least red.



That's me saying I DON'T think expectation is the explanation.
You go on to accuse people of having defective vision while admitting that your own vision not like that of other people. Maybe your vision is 'defective'. Just because you can't see what others see doesn't make you right and them wrong. This is just something to do with how colour perception works. There's no point just rejecting it. It's a real and interesting phenomena.
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Re: Colour

#817  Postby The_Metatron » Aug 17, 2017 5:08 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Wasn't what was going on with those strawberries to do with how we build the entire picture in our head? You have an internal model of strawberries, and know they are red. In that one, we're filling in the missing color from our model. Or, trying to.
...

So, you actually see red stawberries in the photo??
So far, no-one else has admitted to that, so you're an unusual case, Met!

EDIT: Also, trying is not necessarily succeeding.

Not very red, but I can see it. It comes and goes, depending on how much of the picture I take in at once. If I screen the photo, and only view it through a small hole in a piece of paper, there's no red.


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Re: Colour

#818  Postby The_Metatron » Aug 17, 2017 5:12 pm

DavidMcC wrote:synaesthesia
BTW, Met, have you considered the possibility that you have some form of synaesthesia? ideasthesia, perhaps?
PS, I'm taking the last line of your post above as just another (failed) wind-up attempt, because it is fairly obviously that normal colour vision does not involve seeing only what you expect, or want to see.

Nothing like either of those.


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Re: Colour

#819  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 5:13 pm

Yes, but you were accepting that grey strawberries look red, which is absurd.
Perhaps I should instead have challenged The_Metatron to prove that it is true that MOST people would see grey strawberries as red, but you did not do so. I can't believe it is true.
Also, I reject your claim that I could be the one with "defective" vision, because it is abnormal to see grey as red just because red is the expected colour. For that reason, I suspect that The_Met is being mischievous here.
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Re: Colour

#820  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 5:25 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Yes, but you were accepting that grey strawberries look red, which is absurd.
Perhaps I should instead have challenged The_Metatron to prove that it is true that MOST people would see grey strawberries as red, but you did not do so. I can't believe it is true.
Also, I reject your claim that I could be the one with "defective" vision, because it is abnormal to see grey as red just because red is the expected colour. For that reason, I suspect that The_Met is being mischievous here.

Well I can see red ... and if I remember correctly someone explained why people do see red when the strawberry picture was originally posted.

So the question arises your vision is different? If you really care why not set up a new post with a poll to see how many people see a tinge of red in the strawberries. As so far you are the only one claiming not to see red.

And as Metatron pointed out if the potion of picture is masked the illusion of redness goes. It's all in this thread earlier.
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