OlivierK wrote:OlivierK wrote:Andrew4Handel wrote:My older brother had a deep pressure sore on his bottom due to his advanced MS and inability to move. It smelled like death. It looked like it should hurt but he felt no pain.
You can have extensive injury without pain. And some of the sharpest pain comes from minor injuries like paper cut and tooth ache. It doesn't follow that bodily injury entails pain. Consciousness leads to pain. Anaesthetic works by Preventing consciousness either by causing total unconsciousness or local numbness.
Perhaps you or another inclined towards idealism can give an idealism-based explanation of how neurochemical agents (general anaesthetics) suspend consciousness, or indeed how an idealism-based understanding of consciousness would allow the development of non-neurochemical anaesthetic methods.
No?
Never an idealist around when you want one.
I'm not inclined to idealism so I can't answer your question but I will point out a couple of things.
There are "non-neurochemical anaesthetic methods. "
People have undergone dental extraction operations under hypnosis with no anaesthetic.
Also, phantom limb pain can be greatly reduced or eliminated by moving the remaining limb while watching it in a mirror. No drugs.
There is no reason to think these results are achieved by 'mental processes'. These people have physical brains after all, and what those brains do seems to be critical in these cases.
It suggests to me that pain we feel what the brain works out as appropriate. That isn't consciously accessible or controllable.
I agree that " It doesn't follow that bodily injury entails pain." Because the brain must identify stimuli as indicative of a state that should be painful. It then also has to render that as conscious experience. If there are more important things occupying attention you might not notice pain.
Obviously, interrupting the process that identify and render pain can block pain experiences.