What is wrong with contemporary philosophy?
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LifeIsAbsurd wrote:...contemporaries will not relinquish their need for the modern criteria of "universal, transcendental, and foundational." In this light, I want to suggest that the solution to the problem is in finding a way to accept the reality that universal, transcendental, and foundational knowledge is not possible while at the same time finding a way to warrant the willingness to continue to make truth-claims in such a way that the one making the claim is justified in believing that the claim is universal, transcendental, and foundational without imposing those criteria as a standard.

LifeIsAbsurd wrote:I don't think the subject-object distinction has to be a dichotomy. It's only a dichotomy when you approach it out of a Kantian need to overcome skepticism. I think it's a useful distinction when it is only a distinction and not a necessary distinction. In this way I'm post-Kantian not non-Kantian. So I'm with you to an extent as well.
ps, Life IS absurd, in a way Mr. Mitty might have appreciated, if only he knew...
Hmmm, Im not even sure its a useful distinction. It probably depends on how you define it, or the context in which it is used. Again, though, Im skeptical even of its utility.
Sartre, or Camus? I was talking of 'John Klocke', btw.

LifeIsAbsurd wrote:MalterWitty wrote:Hmmm, Im not even sure its a useful distinction. It probably depends on how you define it, or the context in which it is used. Again, though, Im skeptical even of its utility.
I definitely agree it depends on the context, and I'd support your being skeptical of its utility as well. I just find it useful to use the distinction when dealing with people who use the distinction, which I assumed would be most people who read the post.
Perhaps a better way to express my solution to the crisis of contemporary philosophy in this conversation is to say, "The willingness to express truth-claims with the intention of believing them to be true as opposed to the need to express truth claims with the intention of universalizing them."
Sartre, or Camus? I was talking of 'John Klocke', btw.
Camus. And yeah, the Klocke thing always gets a laugh. It gets a bigger laugh when I tell them I'm an empiricist.
WalterMitty wrote:When I consider the original philosophical 'distinction' of subject-object and its subsequent genealogy, I see something which, all things considered, should be irrelevant (obselete?) to contemporary philosophy. That is, it had a purpose, and served a purpose, much in the same way Plato's Form's did. If anything, the continued use of the 'distinction' seems more a thing of tradition than anything else; a case of needing to be awoken from ones dogmatic slumber, perhaps. Especially when the distinction is possibly responsible for much of the antinomy evident in philosophy of mind and epistemology.
If anything could qualify as a Sisyphean boulder in philosophy, it is the subject-object distinction. And Im not even sure the internalist-externalist distinction transcends this predicament either.
Okay, are you proposing some sort of coherentism as opposed to correspondence here? Im unclear if you think 'universal' also encompasses 'absolute'?


Comte de St.-Germain wrote:I don't know that there is a crisis. Certain issues - epistemology, ethics, metaphysics - have been settled, but this hardly entails a crisis.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote: It merely means that the focus has shifted.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:Philosophy in the twentieth century was concerned with the attacking and criticising of political institutions and revealing their underlying materialistic grounds.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:A contemporary Marxist analysis. We saw such analyses of psychiatry and even medicine, but also imprisonment - Foucault. Some of these critiques have succeeded, psychiatry and imprisonment, whereas medicine has failed (AIDS turned out to be real rather than a means of demonising homosexuals).
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:The most important task in the modern world is no longer to speak of 'what is beautiful', 'what is true', 'what is real' - this forum is filled with such fatuous questions on consciousness that have as much relevance to real life as discussing the number of angels that may dance on a pinhead - but rather to value social movements, institutions, effects, i.e. social phenomena.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:In other words, Spinoza - not controlling but understanding the world - criticising and attacking cultural institutions and exposing the values they are supported by. In essence, philosophy.


LifeIsAbsurd wrote:WalterMitty wrote:
Okay, are you proposing some sort of coherentism as opposed to correspondence here? Im unclear if you think 'universal' also encompasses 'absolute'?
I don't think so. Let me put it this way. I am skeptical of a universal standard of rationality, not that there is an absolute reality which is what it is. G.E. Moore's "Here is a hand, here is another hand" is enough to bust radical skepticism for me. But it always seemed to me an admission of the skepticism of certainty. It was if he was saying, "I know we can't ever be certain of all this stuff, but I think it's probably more convincing to say that there is a real world, not a mind-world, than to be skeptical of the real world."
So, with regard to coherentism, you could have a set of truth-claims that are completely coherent and sensible with regard to one-another, but which are not true (which are not really the way things are). Similarly, you could have a set of beliefs that are well-founded, but which rest on foundations which are not true (not really the way things are), although to a certain person they seem self-evident.
So what we ultimately need is an epistemology which doesn't require a philosopher to universalize his or her claims, but which has room for the philosopher to suggest that the claim should be believed as absolutely, really the way things are. I don't have a name for it, but it flies in the face of the analytic tradition (which is damnable in Anglo-American circles).
LifeIsAbsurd wrote:Comte de St.-Germain wrote:I don't know that there is a crisis. Certain issues - epistemology, ethics, metaphysics - have been settled, but this hardly entails a crisis.
I'm always wary of the one who says, "This has been settled." It may well have been settled within a certain tradition, school, or subschool, but not for me or for someone else. When someone says, "This has been settled/This is trivial/Don't ask, don't bother," I interpret it as authoritarian and intellectually destructive. Perhaps you don't mean it in such a way, but I think it is highly presumptuous to say, "Certain issues - epistemology, ethics, metaphysics - have been settled."
Comte de St.-Germain wrote: It merely means that the focus has shifted.
I think the language has shifted, the focus has not, especially if you take the scope of philosophy as more generally than "clarifying thought" or "criticizing social structures."
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:Philosophy in the twentieth century was concerned with the attacking and criticising of political institutions and revealing their underlying materialistic grounds.
Not all philosophy. Much philosophy was devoted to this, but many philosophers had plenty to say about the "certain issues" that were supposed to be settled. There are Continental philosophers who would not have been interested in revealing "underlying materialistic grounds," there are pragmatists who would not have cared about what grounds one might put forward so long as a given system worked. There are analytic philosophers (Anscombe and the like) who had ethical and epistemological qualms with their contemporaries. Heidegger, who wanted to shrug off the very framework of much of 20th century philosophical function.
This claim seems to me a gross oversimplification.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:A contemporary Marxist analysis. We saw such analyses of psychiatry and even medicine, but also imprisonment - Foucault. Some of these critiques have succeeded, psychiatry and imprisonment, whereas medicine has failed (AIDS turned out to be real rather than a means of demonising homosexuals).
I would be happy to include these analyses as within the scope of philosophy, but certainly not the whole of philosophy, or even the point of philosophy.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:The most important task in the modern world is no longer to speak of 'what is beautiful', 'what is true', 'what is real' - this forum is filled with such fatuous questions on consciousness that have as much relevance to real life as discussing the number of angels that may dance on a pinhead - but rather to value social movements, institutions, effects, i.e. social phenomena.
One cannot criticize a social movement, institution, phenomenon, or effect without having some sense of disbelieving the claims of a movement or institution ("what is true").
One cannot disagree with the value of a social structure unless one has some sense as to why that structure is wrong or destructive ("what is good"). And one won't have a sense of what is true or what is good without having some idea as to what is real.
The claim that philosophy has nothing to do with the real world doesn't hold water when the people acting in a society or forming a social structure have beliefs which are philosophical.
Comte de St.-Germain wrote:In other words, Spinoza - not controlling but understanding the world - criticising and attacking cultural institutions and exposing the values they are supported by. In essence, philosophy.
I think philosophy, in essence, ends up with answering the question "How should I live life?" not "What is wrong with society?"


Comte de St.-Germain wrote:Of course, because you include several more projects than myself, that I consider settled.
orpheus wrote:If there is a crisis, why jump to the conclusion that it needs to be solved? I notice in the OP that culture is included in the list of areas of which it is said "it is in a crisis". Well, we hear that all the time in my field, music. I can't recall whether it was Glenn Gould or Pierre Boulez who responded: "every artist is always in a state of crisis, or he wouldn't be an artist". That seems true to me.

orpheus wrote:
Might this be true in philosophy as well? I'm just speculating here. It's always assumed that it's best to solve crises. (The other option, seen above, is to deny that there really is a crisis.) But I think it's at least worth considering that it might be best not to solve some crises. Instead, use them as fuel for the fire, so to speak.
LifeIsAbsurd wrote:Comte de St.-Germain wrote:I don't know that there is a crisis. Certain issues - epistemology, ethics, metaphysics - have been settled, but this hardly entails a crisis.
I'm always wary of the one who says, "This has been settled." It may well have been settled within a certain tradition, school, or subschool, but not for me or for someone else. When someone says, "This has been settled/This is trivial/Don't ask, don't bother," I interpret it as authoritarian and intellectually destructive. Perhaps you don't mean it in such a way, but I think it is highly presumptuous to say, "Certain issues - epistemology, ethics, metaphysics - have been settled."Comte de St.-Germain wrote: It merely means that the focus has shifted.
I think the language has shifted, the focus has not, especially if you take the scope of philosophy as more generally than "clarifying thought" or "criticizing social structures."Comte de St.-Germain wrote:Philosophy in the twentieth century was concerned with the attacking and criticising of political institutions and revealing their underlying materialistic grounds.
Not all philosophy. Much philosophy was devoted to this, but many philosophers had plenty to say about the "certain issues" that were supposed to be settled. There are Continental philosophers who would not have been interested in revealing "underlying materialistic grounds," there are pragmatists who would not have cared about what grounds one might put forward so long as a given system worked. There are analytic philosophers (Anscombe and the like) who had ethical and epistemological qualms with their contemporaries. Heidegger, who wanted to shrug off the very framework of much of 20th century philosophical function.
This claim seems to me a gross oversimplification.Comte de St.-Germain wrote:A contemporary Marxist analysis. We saw such analyses of psychiatry and even medicine, but also imprisonment - Foucault. Some of these critiques have succeeded, psychiatry and imprisonment, whereas medicine has failed (AIDS turned out to be real rather than a means of demonising homosexuals).
I would be happy to include these analyses as within the scope of philosophy, but certainly not the whole of philosophy, or even the point of philosophy.Comte de St.-Germain wrote:The most important task in the modern world is no longer to speak of 'what is beautiful', 'what is true', 'what is real' - this forum is filled with such fatuous questions on consciousness that have as much relevance to real life as discussing the number of angels that may dance on a pinhead - but rather to value social movements, institutions, effects, i.e. social phenomena.
One cannot criticize a social movement, institution, phenomenon, or effect without having some sense of disbelieving the claims of a movement or institution ("what is true"). One cannot disagree with the value of a social structure unless one has some sense as to why that structure is wrong or destructive ("what is good"). And one won't have a sense of what is true or what is good without having some idea as to what is real.
The claim that philosophy has nothing to do with the real world doesn't hold water when the people acting in a society or forming a social structure have beliefs which are philosophical.Comte de St.-Germain wrote:In other words, Spinoza - not controlling but understanding the world - criticising and attacking cultural institutions and exposing the values they are supported by. In essence, philosophy.
I think philosophy, in essence, ends up with answering the question "How should I live life?" not "What is wrong with society?"

Comte de St.-Germain wrote: The focus of continental philosophy is clear.

jamest wrote:Hi, welcome.
I enjoyed your post. That there is (or might be) a crisis in contemporary philosophy, only serves to highlight the problems with [contemporary] philosophers... and not philosophy itself. Those who consider matters "settled" are indicative of that so-called problem... are the problem.

Comte de St.-Germain wrote:jamest wrote:Hi, welcome.
Welcome?I enjoyed your post. That there is (or might be) a crisis in contemporary philosophy, only serves to highlight the problems with [contemporary] philosophers... and not philosophy itself. Those who consider matters "settled" are indicative of that so-called problem... are the problem.
For all intents and purposes, you are discussing philosophy on a level of three to four hundred years ago. You are about as contemporary as a heliocentric view of the universe.
Didn't I already? The evaluation of values - at a social and cultural level. I.e. Criticising and attacking social institutions for their orientation and stated purpose. Concrete example: What is the aim of the education system and is this system achieving that system, on what basis are we considering the success or failure of the education system and do these things correspond? The same can be said for the penal system. Are we trying to reduce crime or punish?
Philosophy here is not divorced from science, in fact, it uses distinctly scientific methods. The point is that its critical orientation, its attacking and critically assessing of society and its values is philosophical.


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