Go where the heart is

Is the 'heart' devoid of reason?

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Go where the heart is

#1  Postby jamest » Jun 28, 2018 11:52 pm

Faced with a difficult and often life-changing decision, you'll sometimes get the advice to go where the heart is. Of course the heart is just an organ within the chest, but the essence of such advice is to emotionally choose that which would make you happiest regardless of reasoned considerations. This to me implies that the heart/emotion is deemed to be devoid of any attachment to reason.
So, is it?

I haven't made my mind up about anything yet, nor come to any conclusions - including berating the idea that you should go where the heart is. I'm just chewing the fat for now and will give it further thought.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#2  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 29, 2018 12:50 am

I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing? We'd say "listen to your heart" or something like that. I don't know if it means that reason and emotion are totally separate, but the point of the phrase does seem to be encouraging an emotional action instead of a reasoned one.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#3  Postby Thommo » Jun 29, 2018 1:14 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing?


No. There's a phrase "follow your heart", that's about as close as it gets. It means that if you can't make a tough choice you should do the thing that deep down you really feel passionate about.

ETA: Which I'm guessing is the same phrase as you already have and probably know is no different here anyway.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#4  Postby Gila Guerilla » Jun 29, 2018 2:36 am

Thommo wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing?


No. There's a phrase "follow your heart", that's about as close as it gets. It means that if you can't make a tough choice you should do the thing that deep down you really feel passionate about.

I suppose that if you definitely, positively have to make a decision, and you've given it as much thought, with consideration for reason, logic and evidence, and can't decide, then a reasoned approach to what "feels" right, would be the best option. It would be better than doing what feels wrong, or just picking at random. The outcome might help in making better decisions based on evidence and reason in the future.

For myself, I'd say that the "follow your heart option" should only be used where a decision is imperative, and no rational course comes to mind, in the given time frame.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#5  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 29, 2018 6:23 am

Thommo wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing?


No. There's a phrase "follow your heart", that's about as close as it gets. It means that if you can't make a tough choice you should do the thing that deep down you really feel passionate about.

ETA: Which I'm guessing is the same phrase as you already have and probably know is no different here anyway.

Yeah, "follow your heart" is very common, but I've never heard the specific phrase "go where the heart is".
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Re: Go where the heart is

#6  Postby zulumoose » Jun 29, 2018 6:30 am

My take on this is that often trying to weigh things up on paper, especially personal things involving preferences, can be very misleading. One can try really hard to be objective and look at the facts and likelihood of things panning out in different ways, but it can seem like too many unknowns are involved, or the comparisons are "apples and oranges" type things, where logical reasoning seems impractical. It is easy to feel lost in such situations.

In such cases, the unconscious mind has perhaps made its own evaluation of things, based on preferences and opinions that cannot be described and understood logically. Intuitive reasoning, you could call it. Easy to dismiss as emotional, and sometimes wrong, but there is good reason to suspect that how you feel about something is often based on good reason, whether you know it or not. Certainly when the choices seem impossible when trying to be more rational about it, you are more likely to be right when choosing what feels right.

I read a book recently, can't remember the title, concerning first impressions. It was about decisions made within 2 minutes, before the logical mind starts to weigh up the facts. One of the things that stuck out was that when people watch a video of a doctor talking to patients, the impression they form, within about 30 seconds, is about 80% accurate on whether the doctor is likely to be sued for malpractice, more accurate than how the insurance companies evaluate the doctor. This is because we don't want to blame someone we trust, even if they are more likely to screw up, and we do want to blame someone we don't trust, EVERY time they screw up. The point is, trying to be logical can sometimes be counterproductive because we end up evaluating the wrong things, the unconscious mind sometimes just knows better, and this is only expressed through feelings and emotions.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#7  Postby newolder » Jun 29, 2018 7:32 am

... and, of course, an observed heart is not a heart in itself. :yawn:
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Re: Go where the heart is

#8  Postby Fallible » Jun 29, 2018 7:36 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing?


Nope.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#9  Postby Animavore » Jun 29, 2018 7:49 am

People used to believe the heart was where your thoughts came from and the brain was just for warming blood. So those old saying come from those days.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#10  Postby LucidFlight » Jun 29, 2018 11:48 am

I think it was the great Roxette who once said, Listen to your heart when he's calling for you. Listen to your heart there's nothing else you can do."
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Re: Go where the heart is

#11  Postby felltoearth » Jun 29, 2018 11:58 am

jamest wrote:Faced with a difficult and often life-changing decision, you'll sometimes get the advice to go where the heart is. Of course the heart is just an organ within the chest, but the essence of such advice is to emotionally choose that which would make you happiest regardless of reasoned considerations. This to me implies that the heart/emotion is deemed to be devoid of any attachment to reason.
So, is it?

I haven't made my mind up about anything yet, nor come to any conclusions - including berating the idea that you should go where the heart is. I'm just chewing the fat for now and will give it further thought.

I don't think I've ever gotten that advice. Where there's a choice involved and one is having a rational impasse, I've often heard "go with your gut" which is similar I suppose.
I don't know how this could form the basis of any in depth philosophical discussion however.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#12  Postby newolder » Jun 29, 2018 12:08 pm

Is there a saying, "Go with the flow." or is it, "Go with the flo." ? The latter makes sense as it's about an outgoing tide and the former suggests simply going downhill. Gosh! aren't human ditties philosophical annoyances? :roll: (I know Mr. Mack, I need to work on my catchphrases.)
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Re: Go where the heart is

#13  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 29, 2018 2:12 pm

Fallible wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I've never heard the phrase "go to where the heart is", it's that a UK thing?


Nope.

jamestism? :mrgreen:
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Re: Go where the heart is

#14  Postby Fallible » Jun 29, 2018 3:52 pm

:nod:
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Re: Go where the heart is

#15  Postby jamest » Jun 29, 2018 6:15 pm

felltoearth wrote:
jamest wrote:Faced with a difficult and often life-changing decision, you'll sometimes get the advice to go where the heart is. Of course the heart is just an organ within the chest, but the essence of such advice is to emotionally choose that which would make you happiest regardless of reasoned considerations. This to me implies that the heart/emotion is deemed to be devoid of any attachment to reason.
So, is it?

I haven't made my mind up about anything yet, nor come to any conclusions - including berating the idea that you should go where the heart is. I'm just chewing the fat for now and will give it further thought.

I don't think I've ever gotten that advice. Where there's a choice involved and one is having a rational impasse, I've often heard "go with your gut" which is similar I suppose.
I don't know how this could form the basis of any in depth philosophical discussion however.

Well, I was contemplating whether one's emotions/heart are totally detached from reason. I mean, emotional desires often fly in the face of reason and occasionally we might be persuaded to go with the heart so to speak and just 'see what happens' after.

I did this myself back in the year 2000. Gave up my job, sold my half-share in my house, packed up and fucked off 250 miles for love's sake. I'm sure many of you have made similar choices throughout your lives.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#16  Postby felltoearth » Jun 29, 2018 6:20 pm

There is always a reason for how you feel, however as someone wisely told me once, feelings aren’t facts.

Feelings are difficult to reason with.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#17  Postby scott1328 » Jun 29, 2018 8:26 pm

Emotions are just another part of the cognitive package. You ignore them at your own peril
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Re: Go where the heart is

#18  Postby romansh » Jun 29, 2018 8:45 pm

I understood the question … I think the answer is "It depends."

As a kid I wanted to be a chemist (the shaking test tubes kind and not Boots). After pushing forty years it was a choice I enjoyed and am glad that I went where my heart was, so to speak.

On medical issues I would go with evidence. But perhaps at the end of life I might consider to follow my heart.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#19  Postby jamest » Jun 29, 2018 11:18 pm

scott1328 wrote:Emotions are just another part of the cognitive package. You ignore them at your own peril

I'm not suggesting that we ignore the emotional aspect of ourselves. I'm just wondering how far detached the emotions are from reasoning and what drives these desires (our innate needs/nature? If so, can we say something universal about our innate needs/nature?).

There's plenty to explore here if anyone's interested. I know that I am.

Eta: I'm also wondering just how difficult it is for 'us' to be Spock-like and be perfectly reasonable given our emotional nature. Has anyone ever managed to be Spock (so to speak), ever?

Eta2: I'm even wondering whether we're wholly emotional in essence and that reasoning is something we've merely learnt to do, like science? Again, just chewing the fat. No conclusions drawn atm.
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Re: Go where the heart is

#20  Postby Thommo » Jun 29, 2018 11:48 pm

Asking how far emotions are detached from reasoning is like asking how deeply people consider their financial decisions. It depends on the person, the circumstances and the decision in question.

One (additional) fundamental problem is conceptualising the human mind as divided into complementary categories of emotional and reasoning in the first place. When it comes to explaining a phenomenon like loss aversion the very categorisation fails altogether. The emotional/reasonable divide is a useful model within its limitations, but fundamentally flawed.

And my inner Star Trek nerd feels compelled to say that Spock was only as logical as the script demanded in that moment, which was often about as much as how egalitarian the script demanded the women's mini skirts be.

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