"If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#281  Postby BlackBart » Jul 20, 2018 4:59 pm

The Romans had a pretty good handle on the science of acoustics even before they decided to nail hippys to planks. Just because some 19th/20th century special education cases couldn't grasp it and tried to cover it up with 'philosophy' doesn't mean nobody else had already worked it out.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#282  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 12:18 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:Also stop insulting medieval people. They couldn't help not knowing what anything was, jamest has no excuse for his ignorance.

That's a fair comment except that I already know that no medieval people can be abused/offended any more, so merely used the term as a metaphor for ignorance/sheepishness.

So, what's your fucking excuse?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#283  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 12:24 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:This thread is bizarre. Until about the 19th/20th centuries, the definition of sound was something MERELY associated with the experience/sensation of sound via OBSERVERS thereof. Thereafter, OBSERVERS thereof who had studied THE ORDER inherent within their sensations/experiences decided that sound had a second meaning applicable to the world that they were experiencing/observing in the first instance.

Please note and underline the following fact:

This 'modern' definition of sound (along the lines of 'things' vibrating and affecting one another) DOES NOT TRANSCEND experience/sensation. Note too that this applies equally to all science based upon the sensation/experience of 'seeing/observation', more so really when you realise that most science has its basis in what can be 'seen'.

You always assert this, bare-assed, and in complete contradiction to everything we ever observe.

What a fucking wanked-out statement this is. I mean, I've just essentially explained why the metaphysical value of 'observation' is zero and your retort is "we cannot confirm this via observation"!!

Your IQ level has just taken a serious dive. :nono:
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#284  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 12:35 am

felltoearth wrote:I wish he would stop using the word retard.


Whereas I wish that you would stop being offended by words as your 21st century culture has instructed you to be and focus instead upon making sense of our full tenure here within existence!!

Make some fucking effort to stop being the pussy that you are being, or fuck off and join the popcorn queue. I'm simply not interested in listening to 21st century Western bollocks [here] as I'm not here to appease any of that bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I were here to talk politics I'd be posting in politics. You're the numpty here abusing what should be said, not me!
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#285  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 12:48 am

imahaider wrote:"fucking medieval retard"

Q: If a megalomaniac postulates in a philosophy forum, and anyone dares disagree, does it make an audible cursing sound?

A: 99:1 - yes. And someone, or something, will likely pay dearly.

You don't know me but after just 5 posts within this forum, where I've been a member since its onset, you've proclaimed that I'm a 'megalomaniac'.

I'm therefore calling you a stupid trolling cunt. I'm also inviting you to fuck off back to whichever shithole you came here from, with a frozen badger stuck up your fuckin' arsehole as a souvenir of your time here.

You haven't earned the right to abuse me, squire. Come back in about 5000 posts and I might not abuse your arsehole after you've abused me. Otherwise, just don't fucking come back. I really don't give two shits either way.
Last edited by jamest on Jul 21, 2018 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#286  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 1:04 am

I get on your tits but rest assured that you lot get on mine. You lot have the report button on your side and outnumber me as an individual greatly. Miraculously, I'm still here. God knows how, since even I've been expecting the bullet for the last few years, especially as I've refused to bow-down to you muppets.

Regardless, rest-assured that I'll be taking no bullshit from anyone until that bullet hits the heart. Conversely, one day, you never know, one of you might become genuine. I'll thus plod on and put up with this shite until that bullet comes or until one of you becomes genuine. What else can one do wearing the guise of jamest?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#287  Postby jamest » Jul 21, 2018 1:56 am

BlackBart wrote:The Romans had a pretty good handle on the science of acoustics even before they decided to nail hippys to planks. Just because some 19th/20th century special education cases couldn't grasp it and tried to cover it up with 'philosophy' doesn't mean nobody else had already worked it out.


With all due respect, the Romans had no interest in anything that didn't improve their materialistic wealth and power. Certainly, to pretend that they had a scientific grasp of observational/experiential concepts is just daft, since secondary definitions of observations via the experience of sight/sound/etc. have only been forthcoming in more recent centuries. Certainly, the definition of sound as currently defined by science has no bearing upon Roman knowledge/beliefs/culture. Again, I cannot fathom why you have mentioned the Romans, but it seems utterly daft to me.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#288  Postby romansh » Jul 21, 2018 2:14 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:This thread is bizarre. Until about the 19th/20th centuries, the definition of sound was something MERELY associated with the experience/sensation of sound via OBSERVERS thereof. Thereafter, OBSERVERS thereof who had studied THE ORDER inherent within their sensations/experiences decided that sound had a second meaning applicable to the world that they were experiencing/observing in the first instance.

Please note and underline the following fact:

This 'modern' definition of sound (along the lines of 'things' vibrating and affecting one another) DOES NOT TRANSCEND experience/sensation. Note too that this applies equally to all science based upon the sensation/experience of 'seeing/observation', more so really when you realise that most science has its basis in what can be 'seen'.

You always assert this, bare-assed, and in complete contradiction to everything we ever observe.

What a fucking wanked-out statement this is. I mean, I've just essentially explained why the metaphysical value of 'observation' is zero and your retort is "we cannot confirm this via observation"!!

A bit like your observations?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#289  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 21, 2018 2:15 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Also stop insulting medieval people. They couldn't help not knowing what anything was, jamest has no excuse for his ignorance.

That's a fair comment except that I already know that no medieval people can be abused/offended any more, so merely used the term as a metaphor for ignorance/sheepishness.

So, what's your fucking excuse?

Excuse for what, pointing out the obvious?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#290  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 21, 2018 2:23 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:This thread is bizarre. Until about the 19th/20th centuries, the definition of sound was something MERELY associated with the experience/sensation of sound via OBSERVERS thereof. Thereafter, OBSERVERS thereof who had studied THE ORDER inherent within their sensations/experiences decided that sound had a second meaning applicable to the world that they were experiencing/observing in the first instance.

Please note and underline the following fact:

This 'modern' definition of sound (along the lines of 'things' vibrating and affecting one another) DOES NOT TRANSCEND experience/sensation. Note too that this applies equally to all science based upon the sensation/experience of 'seeing/observation', more so really when you realise that most science has its basis in what can be 'seen'.

You always assert this, bare-assed, and in complete contradiction to everything we ever observe.

What a fucking wanked-out statement this is. I mean, I've just essentially explained why the metaphysical value of 'observation' is zero and your retort is "we cannot confirm this via observation"!!

Your IQ level has just taken a serious dive. :nono:

You didn't explain anything, you asserted, bare-assed, as I said. You wouldn't know an explanation if it slapped you upside the head.

We've already determined that what you find to be of metaphysical value is absolutely worthless, so you can keep that.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#291  Postby romansh » Jul 21, 2018 2:25 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
You didn't explain anything, you asserted, bare-assed,

SaM … to be fair, is that not all an idealist can do?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#292  Postby Spinozasgalt » Jul 21, 2018 2:33 am

jamest wrote:The actual IMPORTANCE of PHILOSOPHICAL threads like these has its basis in FACTS like the ones provided here in my post. Namely, that science has its own basis within EXPERIENCE/SENSATION and does NOT transcend experience/sensation.

Is this what the question is about though? Or is this just another way of deflecting from the question to a philosophical issue in the vicinity?
"if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?"

If we do a closer reading, then it looks a little stranger. Look at what happens before the comma: there's a tree that's falling, and there's a forest it's within. Are they outside of our direct experience? It seems so, by stipulation. But then the question would already transcend this limit of experience/sensation, wouldn't it? It looks like it's premised on some sort of realism about the tree and the forest and the event of the tree's falling. What's going on then? What are those words doing?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#293  Postby LucidFlight » Jul 21, 2018 3:09 am

I agree, Spinny. It's a loaded question. How can (the observation of) anything be around, let alone a tree or a forest, if nobody is around to observe it? The question is absurd from the get-go. It's bullshit!
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#294  Postby felltoearth » Jul 21, 2018 3:11 am

jamest wrote:
felltoearth wrote:I wish he would stop using the word retard.


Whereas I wish that you would stop being offended by words as your 21st century culture has instructed you to be and focus instead upon making sense of our full tenure here within existence!!

Make some fucking effort to stop being the pussy that you are being, or fuck off and join the popcorn queue. I'm simply not interested in listening to 21st century Western bollocks [here] as I'm not here to appease any of that bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I were here to talk politics I'd be posting in politics. You're the numpty here abusing what should be said, not me!

No. As someone with a son with a mental disorder I find the word abhorrent.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#295  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 21, 2018 3:18 am

jamest wrote:I get on your tits but rest assured that you lot get on mine. You lot have the report button on your side and outnumber me as an individual greatly. Miraculously, I'm still here. God knows how, since even I've been expecting the bullet for the last few years, especially as I've refused to bow-down to you muppets.

Lordy your martyr complex is tiring. Seriously, you're no threat to anyone, give it a rest. The reason you're still here is because you keep posting, no miracle involved.

Regardless, rest-assured that I'll be taking no bullshit from anyone until that bullet hits the heart. Conversely, one day, you never know, one of you might become genuine. I'll thus plod on and put up with this shite until that bullet comes or until one of you becomes genuine. What else can one do wearing the guise of jamest?

Not act like a complete twit?
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#296  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 21, 2018 3:19 am

romansh wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
You didn't explain anything, you asserted, bare-assed,

SaM … to be fair, is that not all an idealist can do?

I'm not sure. But at least jamest could be intellectually honest and admit it.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#297  Postby willhud9 » Jul 21, 2018 3:44 am

Lol, a resurrected thread.

Anyways, my two cents on the matter:

Logically speaking a tree falling produces kinetic waves in a decibel range humans can perceive as sound. When we think of a tree falling we perceive the sound via thoughts of what it would sound like. So we find the premise to be absurd. Of course a tree falling makes a sound.

But there are sounds that are below the decibel range humans can hear. Elephants and whales communicate in infrasound. We only know this through technology that detects those noises so the question could be:

Do those noises make a sound? In this case it’s a matter of perception v reality.

Sure it makes a sound, but the sound cannot be perceived so the sound sounds non-existent.

In the case of the tree falling we know it makes a sound, but if it is not perceived to make a sound than technically speaking it is soundless.

A better phrasing of the question. If a tree falls down and no one but a deaf person is around to hear it does it make a sound?

It shifts the focus away from philosophical mumbo jumbo and places the focus on perceived reality. I think that is a better focus anyways.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#298  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 21, 2018 3:57 am

A deaf person doesn't hear it, so that doesn't help. You either define sound as the compression wave, in which case it obviously does, or as the perception of it, in which case it obviously doesn't. That's all there is to it.

Edit: I think the philosophical mumbo jumbo, ie asking us to think about how we think about perception, is the only part that's actually interesting, assuming you've never thought about it before.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#299  Postby willhud9 » Jul 21, 2018 4:30 am

Well I never thought that the intital statement actually forced us to think about it, but rather relied on a technicality, which I always found implausible.

It’s almost like the question: if an unstoppable force pushed against an immovable object would it budge?

The thoughts around perception is fascinating, but made less so due to skeptical reasoning.

The Internet fad of the dress being blue/grey or gold/white or Laney vs Yaney bring to mind how perception plays tricks on our mind and how our mind is easily fooled.


I don’t know; my main point is I think the question remains in the realm of silliness.
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Re: "If a tree falls" joke?? What is the answer?

#300  Postby BlackBart » Jul 21, 2018 4:56 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:A deaf person doesn't hear it, so that doesn't help. You either define sound as the compression wave, in which case it obviously does, or as the perception of it, in which case it obviously doesn't. That's all there is to it.


And if one defines sound as the perception, it renders the question especially pointless as it would boil down to 'If a tree falls and no one hears it, does anyone hear it?

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