GrahamH wrote:

Destroyer wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

Destroyer wrote:
When they become established as fact, then how they function would need to be determined by the evidence. God, could have no control over them - as in this universe - if their existence was not fundamental.

God has no control?
What sort of god is that?
What of the brain control?
God has control only over that which is fundamental?

- A God who really exists cannot have control over illusory appearances (the phenomenal universe). God only controls actual existence (Himself).

A 'god' that can't even control illusion is feeble thing indeed, unworthy of the name.
If 'god' has been talking to you he lied. That is no god.

Destroyer wrote:- The brain functions by its own electrical impulses: Those electrical impulses are its control.

You contradict yourself. Earlier you claimed god would control brains. Which is it?

- How can one who really exists have any compatibility with illusion? No compatibility means having nothing in common to acknowledge or associate with.

- Earlier I said that God would take illicit control of brains.

Cito di Pense wrote:

jamest wrote:How do you control a brain? I want a piece of this action.

Appeal to either greed or anxiety, which have been found to be the most effective motivators.

No, as God is simply going to control our brains. The truth will follow, as will right-action, apparently. Therefore, it appears that the truth IS a brain state.

I want to know how God intends to change our brain states, en masse. Sounds like it's going to be the party of all parties.

Our chemists are missing a trick.

If you're real nice to me, I'll explain how anxiety works itself out in altruism.

Not everyone is anxious, Cito.

Ani Difranco says, "any tool is a weapon, if you hold it right".

Yes, I discovered that when I was changing nappies/diapers.

jamest wrote:

Cito di Pense wrote:

jamest wrote:How do you control a brain? I want a piece of this action.

Appeal to either greed or anxiety, which have been found to be the most effective motivators.

No, as God is simply going to control our brains.

As I was saying... appeal to either greed or anxiety. That's what God does.

jamest wrote:How do you control a brain? I want a piece of this action.

With electromagnetism!

Now that we've pioneered this sort of thing, God can come in and just put magnetic coils on our heads and pull all the strings!

Boyle wrote:

jamest wrote:How do you control a brain? I want a piece of this action.

With electromagnetism!

Now that we've pioneered this sort of thing, God can come in and just put magnetic coils on our heads and pull all the strings!

But how will God enter the empirical domain and grab a magnetic coil? As Elvis? As 7 billion clones of him? Or is it going to be a bent-spoon event, with coils magically appearing on our heads as we get out of bed? And what's to stop us taking them off?

Destroyer talks about the controlling of brains, as though 'we' are brains. That makes him a dualist, in my books. Obviously, he hasn't read about the problems Descartes faced in trying to reconcile a reality with two distinct substances.

Destroyer stated that phenomenal entities do not exist, and he seems to believe in some sort of fundamental God-mind. Doesn't that make him an idealist? You both see the world as illusion. James, you think brains and self identify are fictions by God, for God. It is trivial for such a God / author to enter 'the empirical realm' .

Destroyer wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

Destroyer wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

God has no control?
What sort of god is that?
What of the brain control?
God has control only over that which is fundamental?

- A God who really exists cannot have control over illusory appearances (the phenomenal universe). God only controls actual existence (Himself).

A 'god' that can't even control illusion is feeble thing indeed, unworthy of the name.
If 'god' has been talking to you he lied. That is no god.

Destroyer wrote:- The brain functions by its own electrical impulses: Those electrical impulses are its control.

You contradict yourself. Earlier you claimed god would control brains. Which is it?

- How can one who really exists have any compatibility with illusion? No compatibility means having nothing in common to acknowledge or associate with.

- Earlier I said that God would take illicit control of brains.

How does an illusionist create illusions? How does an author create a work of fiction? There is no difficulty there. The impossibility is for an illusion or fiction to create.

GrahamH wrote:

How does an illusionist create illusions? How does an author create a work of fiction? There is no difficult there. The impossibility is for an illusion or fiction to create.

on the contrary, what is an illusionist, this cant be true, tricks take advantage from knowing present being individually, so another is easy to fool about what one is doing, without being anything in real, but if something look like real illusion then there is a negative truth that would be seen from the illusion powers, like controlling others minds which would have the effect of creating objects, by living powers
but i guess the objects created would be negative for sure

if you kill someone and steal all his positive things and like claim inheriting him, everything you would do of stuffs would be all to live by destroying true rights, the owners of those stuffs

truth rights is for everything and everyone, for true positive value

destructions and possessions of things erase the concept of positive from existing

positive is exclusively to truth, noone else can do positive but the positive itself, positive cant be but true
present value

what i am saying dont mean any change, on the contrary it is only confirming the fact, the negative truth which starts by stating the misery of what is true, so what is positive source alone, enslaved to be positive source of who enjoy stealing all what they are and their rights
the fact is about truth, truth misery became existence fact
which is confirmed from what existence as a whole is based on opposite relations, so never true reality of same things while even nothing possible end is reversed from opposite relations being the only existence

what is killing the truth wherever it is right individuality, seem rich

which confirm the negative truth being the only existence always

positive values are destroyed they wont came back, suffer of present rights is eternal, and lies are the way of being in good health and wealth forever

absols wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

How does an illusionist create illusions? How does an author create a work of fiction? There is no difficult there. The impossibility is for an illusion or fiction to create.

on the contrary, what is an illusionist, this cant be true, tricks take advantage from knowing present being individually, so another is easy to fool about what one is doing, without being anything in real, but if something look like real illusion then there is a negative truth that would be seen from the illusion powers, like controlling others minds which would have the effect of creating objects, by living powers
but i guess the objects created would be negative for sure

What?

In this context, for sake of argument, 'an illusionist' is presumed to be 'something real' (e.g. Destroyer's god)
The subject of the illusion is presumed to be 'something real' (e.g. Destroyer's mind)
Everything else is presumed to not be real (e.g. Destroyer's 'phenomenal objects do not exist' (e.g. his brain)).

Do agree with Destroyer that a 'real god' cannot control illusions perceived by a 'real mind'?

I think he has it backward. An 'illusory brain' could not control a 'real mind'

That is not so say that I think minds are real and brains are illusory, but brains are phenomenal objects.

A 'real brain' might generate an 'illusory mind'.

If gods and minds are real they might create / perceive illusions, which no non-existent illusory phenomenal object could do.

jamest wrote:I want to know how God intends to change our brain states, en masse. Sounds like it's going to be the party of all parties.

How do you think your god does it?

He is his god, and so are you.

Fallible wrote:He is his god, and so are you.

And he, like Destroyer, he doesn't think brains are real.

Jamest and Destroyer have some common ground.

Oh, I know it.

GrahamH wrote:
What?

In this context, for sake of argument, 'an illusionist' is presumed to be 'something real' (e.g. Destroyer's god)
The subject of the illusion is presumed to be 'something real' (e.g. Destroyer's mind)
Everything else is presumed to not be real (e.g. Destroyer's 'phenomenal objects do not exist' (e.g. his brain)).

Do agree with Destroyer that a 'real god' cannot control illusions perceived by a 'real mind'?

I think he has it backward. An 'illusory brain' could not control a 'real mind'

That is not so say that I think minds are real and brains are illusory, but brains are phenomenal objects.

A 'real brain' might generate an 'illusory mind'.

If gods and minds are real they might create / perceive illusions, which no non-existent illusory phenomenal object could do.

you cant presume what you want, you are being an illusionist and it is like i said, you can invent what you want about anything alone some could believe you because they are free too, this is more the formula of life then powers

everything as we see it is an object fallacy, the laws of physics are a fallacy, only maths is right but it doesnt exist

only reality is what can justify an opinion or perspective, inventing an hypothese to mean something else is like confirming that all is false anyway, even nothing is not true, which again confirm the point, all is a fallacy

about what you were seeking to prove, what is real?? your perception of reality is different to mine
real is what makes one with you, so you must be alike constantly clarifiying it right, which out from those realisations
you are being confirmed free, so real alone too as a self in mind, the mind is then not before, the mind is for the self that is free

so when you say brains and gods and minds...it is nonsense creation, you cant create what exist already
brains are known for what they are, it is for else identification while being still individually...

everything is free, truth equations are objectively superior, so there is nothing else

gods minds brains are free present existence, not the things they could be out of realizing
only freedom exist, like one true self being is the free out of all truth so not the truth, revealed by existing

existence is to objective constancy, only true freedom rights would stay same without means, so existence is about truth present values, the present is a major value reference, for values to be the only present thing
the word value is in the literal sense, basically existence must be positive otherwise there is no present as a fact, also existence conception is truth positive ends, existence came after infinity, the definitive superior ends

Fallible wrote:He is his god, and so are you.

how are you your god??? explain

what do you mean by being god?? the concept of god is being wrong, never real, never in relation with truth, never in respect to else existence rights, which is the only fact of truth, else you see
deciding to rule who you see, how is it the right thing for you since you advocate a weird belief ??

I'm not my god. I don't believe in God. I don't advocate a weird belief. I am giving you the Word according to james.

Your [absols] posts read like the product of a chat-bot.

GrahamH wrote:

Fallible wrote:He is his god, and so are you.

And he, like Destroyer, he doesn't think brains are real.

Jamest and Destroyer have some common ground.

If he doesn't think brains are real, then what's the point of controlling brains as a means of mass salvation?

Btw, I think that brains have a reductive explanation - not that they don't exist. There has to be something underpinning everything.

GrahamH wrote:

Your [absols] posts read like the product of a chat-bot.

you are exagerating..but the idea maybe is what i wont say something if else is not present too
it is crazy to speak for oneself, i used to write few things before but i was meaning some perfections, then i reached the answer, reality is much more artistic to realize then words especially when we mean perfection, it cant be but through truth superiority and present value

jamest wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

Fallible wrote:He is his god, and so are you.

And he, like Destroyer, he doesn't think brains are real.

Jamest and Destroyer have some common ground.

If he doesn't think brains are real, then what's the point of controlling brains as a means of mass salvation?

Btw, I think that brains have a reductive explanation - not that they don't exist. There has to be something underpinning everything.

What is you problem with the idea of a god controlling brains (that are 'phenomenal objects that don't exist')?

In your scheme, if god decided to' reveal the Truth to everyone' wouldn't that be done along with orchestration of appropriate brain activity? What's the difference?