Is philosophy worth bothering with?

on fundamental matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind and ethics.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#881  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 11:13 am

And I don't think anyone who hasn't read any Shakespeare yet should read any until someone gives all the plays a modern reboot.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#882  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 17, 2017 11:18 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:Was it any good?


Mark Twain, or somebody, said: "If you're the sort of person who likes this sort of book, then this is the sort of book you'll like."
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Placebo Domingo
Posts: 29397
Age: 23
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#883  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 11:19 am

Fallible wrote:Anyway, you can't rest anything on a sauce. It would just sink through it.


Oh ye of little faith.

Image
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/ ... nds-231611
Last edited by archibald on Jan 17, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#884  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 11:20 am

Yeah, but philosophy?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#885  Postby Spinozasgalt » Jan 17, 2017 11:22 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Spinozasgalt wrote:Was it any good?


Mark Twain, or somebody, said: "If you're the sort of person who likes this sort of book, then this is the sort of book you'll like."

I prefer Samuel Clemens.
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

Kacey Musgraves
User avatar
Spinozasgalt
RS Donator
 
Name: Jennifer
Posts: 18760
Age: 33
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#886  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 11:24 am

Fallible wrote:Yeah, but philosophy?


Tut tut. There you go moving the goalposts again. You said 'anything'. I can only try to deal with the task put in front of me.

But now that you ask:
Image
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#887  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 17, 2017 11:24 am

LucidFlight wrote:Philosophy for me is like a fishing boat on the seas of thought, where ideas are tackled, brought to mind, and flop merrily about on the deck of reason.

— Ooh, and it's the opportunity to write about the thought that philosophy is like a fishing boat and my individual consciousness is a wave on an ocean of universal consciousness.



When the still sea conspires an armor
And her sullen and aborted currents breed tiny monsters
True sailing is dead...


(/sargassm)
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Placebo Domingo
Posts: 29397
Age: 23
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#888  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 11:26 am

Cito di Pense wrote:Mark Twain, or somebody, said: "If you're the sort of person who likes this sort of book, then this is the sort of book you'll like."


Mark Twain was an Ethical Realist? Who knew?
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#889  Postby Spinozasgalt » Jan 17, 2017 11:29 am

:drunk:

Also, thanks for the link, guys.
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

Kacey Musgraves
User avatar
Spinozasgalt
RS Donator
 
Name: Jennifer
Posts: 18760
Age: 33
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#890  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 11:40 am

archibald wrote:
Fallible wrote:Yeah, but philosophy?


Tut tut. There you go moving the goalposts again. You said 'anything'. I can only try to deal with the task put in front of me.

But now that you ask:
Image


What d'you mean again? And stop trying to turn my facetious comment into something I'm obliged to back up. :snooty:
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#891  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 11:42 am

Fallible wrote:What d'you mean again?


If I'd just made that up, it would be fiction. Though not necessarily horrible. Wink wink. :grin:
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#892  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 11:50 am

Yeah, I thought you meant that. Not goalpost shifting. Or anyway I can say that, because you didn't show how it was. Seems to be a distinction without a difference to me.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#893  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 12:04 pm

Fallible wrote:Seems to be a distinction without a difference to me.


Surely not.

I'm sure you don't really want to have a silly argument about this. I know I don't.
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#894  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 12:06 pm

Fallible wrote:And I don't think anyone who hasn't read any Shakespeare yet should read any until someone gives all the plays a modern reboot.


Good analogy. Science as philosophy re-booted. Do we still need the original version?
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#895  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm

archibald wrote:
Fallible wrote:Seems to be a distinction without a difference to me.


Surely not.

I'm sure you don't really want to have a silly argument about this. I know I don't.


You don't? Why did you initiate it then? You philosophy people are strange and scary to me.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#896  Postby Fallible » Jan 17, 2017 12:19 pm

archibald wrote:
Fallible wrote:And I don't think anyone who hasn't read any Shakespeare yet should read any until someone gives all the plays a modern reboot.


Good analogy. Science as philosophy re-booted. Do we still need the original version?


And is necessity the criterion upon which to judge something's right to exist?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#897  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 12:25 pm

Fallible wrote:You don't? Why did you initiate it then?


Please don't do that. We're not a married couple yet.

Fallible wrote:You philosophy people are strange and scary to me.


Someone should make a horror movie about us.

ETA: 'Existentialist 2: The heretic' ?

ETA 2: 'A Girl Walks Hume Alone At Night'?
Last edited by archibald on Jan 17, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#898  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 12:28 pm

Fallible wrote:And is necessity the criterion upon which to judge something's right to exist?


A very good philosophical question. Unamenable to science, pretty much, I think. As such, possibly only of limited interest to the nerds in here. Sort of like how realistic human drama is possibly only of limited interest to those in the film thread. :evilgrin:
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#899  Postby archibald » Jan 17, 2017 12:46 pm

Thommo wrote:Dunno, if this is relevant, but I thought it was fun:


Very good.
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Is philosophy worth bothering with?

#900  Postby VazScep » Jan 17, 2017 1:37 pm

archibald: I can only speak as someone with some AI background, but I don't put much stock in Pinker and other advocates of a computational theory of mind. Whatever good old fashioned AI researchers were up to when those debates were raging, it wasn't science. Indeed, the dearth of empirical methods was partly what made it all so much hype. One of the computational linguists at our school, a veteran of classic Chomsky approaches to NLP once remarked how she liked the statistical approaches that have replaced it, because real world data "keeps you honest".

I still took philosophy of mind when I did my masters in AI, and that's where I got to read people like Dennett, and I do still occasionally natter about this stuff with old AI buddies. But it's difficult to credit those discussions with anything when deep learning is currently clearing out the last remains of the old vanguards, and this before we admit that computational approaches to modelling minds predate Pinker: they are the most obvious thing to try when you have computers and formal logic ready to hand. Any philosophical defences marshalled after the fact might have soothed a few people who don't want to have to learn new stuff like numerical algorithms and develop the intuitions needed to usefully compose non linear transforms, but not much else.

This stuff isn't decided a priori. We'll know what works when it does.
Here we go again. First, we discover recursion.
VazScep
 
Posts: 4590

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 3 guests