Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

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Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#1  Postby dochmbi » Sep 25, 2017 9:34 am

Hey! I wonder if you could help me out. I'm looking for an advocate of a rather brutal philosophy, preferably someone modern, 19th century or newer.

I'd like to know if there's been someone who questions the doctrine of intrinsic human value. That we are all worth something just as individuals. Someone who demands that people work for their survival, someone who insist that the fundamental reason society exists is so that we can help each other survive. This person would probably value practical sciences much higher than humanistic ones like literature and would hate to see resources spent on studying poetry or art history.

They would point to history and nature and show us how tough the situation is that most animals live in and that we too are simply animals and it is natural for us to have to fight for our own survival. They would demand that everybody contribute to society or lose their justification for existence. They would point out that we are a bit distanced from our own survival through our systems of money and markets and police and all the institutions in place, that we have forgotten the raw need to fight against nature for our right to exist.


Is there anybody like this? Would be fun to read some intelligent and eloquent texts like this.
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#2  Postby dochmbi » Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am

Ok so I'm being forced by the state to work and I'm looking for a way to justify it philosophically.
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#3  Postby Cito di Pense » Sep 25, 2017 9:55 am

dochmbi wrote:I'd like to know if there's been someone who questions the doctrine of intrinsic human value.


Do you mean, formally?

I'd like to know if you can cite someone who asserts the doctrine of intrinsic human value. Besides, you know, theists. Or their succssors-in-wibble, secular humanists.

dochmbi wrote:Ok so I'm being forced by the state to work and I'm looking for a way to justify it philosophically.


If you want something they have, and they won't give it to you, otherwise? You don't have to justify it philosophically; you only have to justify it with your bank account balance. Or if it's a fine you're being asked to pay. Then you have to question whatever it was you did that earned the fine, and I'm more confident in finding the right philosopher there.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#4  Postby dogsgod » Nov 26, 2017 3:55 pm

My older brother reminds me that philosophying is all very well and fine indeed until Monday morning rolls around and reality sets in.
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#5  Postby jamest » Dec 01, 2017 11:26 am

dogsgod wrote:My older brother reminds me that philosophying is all very well and fine indeed until Monday morning rolls around and reality sets in.

Tell your brother that Monday mornings are a consequence of a philosophy [of life]. A philosophy which ensnares him, as it does most of us.
They came, they saw, they concurred.
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#6  Postby Sendraks » Dec 01, 2017 12:18 pm

dochmbi wrote: That we are all worth something just as individuals.Someone who demands that people work for their survival, someone who insist that the fundamental reason society exists is so that we can help each other survive.


Society is a product of homo sapiens being collaborative, social creatures and it is that behaviour which has contributed to the species success to the point where you can naval gaze about "individual worth" and the possible opportunities for surviving as an individual apart from society, something made only possible by the existence of society and the success of homo sapiens as a species.

dochmbi wrote:They would point to history and nature and show us how tough the situation is that most animals live in and that we too are simply animals and it is natural for us to have to fight for our own survival.

As I've already stated, if you're looking for something in history and evolution that supports the notion of the individual human fighting for survival as being necessary for species survival, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Individual homo sapiens, and individuals from ancestor species from which they evolved, do not feature prominently at all as success stories. Historically individual hominids are generally not reproductive success stories although they can influence the reproductive success of other species by providing them with a meal.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
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Re: Looking or a certain kind of philosopher

#7  Postby Mike_L » Dec 01, 2017 12:22 pm

dochmbi wrote:Hey! I wonder if you could help me out. I'm looking for an advocate of a rather brutal philosophy...

Max Cady? :ask:


:grin:
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