Self-evidence (main q)

on fundamental matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind and ethics.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Subjective experience is irrefutable, true or false?

#901  Postby BKSo » Jun 04, 2012 8:13 am

pl0bs wrote:Eliminative materialists are free to deny that consciousness exists. They just have to accept a little collateral damage, that science doesnt exist either.


What do you mean by 'science exist'?
BKSo
 
Posts: 205

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#902  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 11:35 am

What would?
(also could you reply on other thread plz)
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#903  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 4:13 pm

I don't know, probably nothing. As far as I see it, Solipsism in any form doesn't explain anything. So I think Occam's Razor doesn't lead to solipsism. It leads to something more like realism.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#904  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 4:16 pm

No, I can't do it asdfjkl... I'm sorry. It's a hypothesis that some cosmologists came up with, but no one believes it, because it's not a practical hypothesis. I postulate that it might be somewhat self-refuting, but I stick with the answer that it's just not a practical answer.

Which has also led me to prefer alternative theories on the origin of the universe such as cyclical (my favourite), and m-theory.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#905  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 4:31 pm

So you're saying my basis for solipsism is based on Occam's Razor?
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#906  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 4:32 pm

Many world interpretation?
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#907  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 5:00 pm

Nope, I thought I'd just add that to the conversation. It just popped into my head again. The question, does Occams Razor lead you to temporal solipsism - to which I would say no - I hope!
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#908  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 5:01 pm

Nope - if you want to guess more I may decide to tell you. I just feel bad cos I don't like giving people spikes when I can avoid it.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#909  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Jun 04, 2012 5:16 pm

You can solve all your issues about solipsism by admitting you can't even prove that you (yourself) exist. You can't know for-sure that you exist, just like you can't know for-sure that stuff around you exists.

Each time you question the existence of reality, question your own sanity first. Maybe you don't even exist to ask whether or not reality exists, the universe began 0.0000000000000001 second ago and will end in 0.0000000000000000000000000001 seconds, all your supposed experiences are just an illusion, well not even an illusion because they don't, and never will exist.

Seriously though, if you didn't understand after the first 500 threads, why the fuck do you think this one will be any different? If you can't give a good answer to that, then maybe you aren't intelligent enough to understand the hundreds of serious answers already given to you on this forum.
User avatar
Ihavenofingerprints
 
Posts: 6903
Age: 27
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#910  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 5:23 pm

To think that I don't exist (eg cogito ergo sum is false) is just ridiculous as I clearly exist.
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#911  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Jun 04, 2012 5:25 pm

And the idea that you can't be sure if the universe existed at a point before you did is also fucken stupid.
User avatar
Ihavenofingerprints
 
Posts: 6903
Age: 27
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#912  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 5:30 pm

Something has to exist. I don't know how the self-doubt works, but apparently you can doubt the "I" in cogito ergo sum, to come to an conclusion - Something thinks, therefore exists.

I don't understand that fully, cos I just define the "I" different in that case to not be the thinker in the scenario, but the experiencer, making it: I experience, therefore I exist.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#913  Postby Lobar » Jun 04, 2012 5:35 pm

let's see this path to knowledge

I exist + perceptions exist -> induction -> axiom based on induction -> perceived knowledge ~> (truth)?
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
User avatar
Lobar
 
Posts: 430
Age: 33
Male

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#914  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 9:46 pm

OK, this is the root of my problem, and the reason why I'm worried about the whole "evident" thing.
Things that are evident (you and your perceptions) irrefutably exist. We've discussed this and came to this consensus. An example here: you see a white rectangle. The image of the rectangle is directly perceived by you (you can see it) and it clearly exists, in other words it's THERE. Now take something like an "external reality". You can't see it, you can't sense it, it doesn't clearly exist, in other words it's NOT THERE. This leads to: only the things that are evident (you have direct access to) are THERE. Everything else clearly does not clearly exist. This is what really scares me, and I've had this issue for 3-4 months now.
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#915  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 9:47 pm

[*]OK, this is the root of my problem, and the reason why I'm worried about the whole "evident" thing.
Things that are evident (you and your perceptions) irrefutably exist. We've discussed this and came to this consensus. An example here: you see a white rectangle. The image of the rectangle is directly perceived by you (you can see it) and it clearly exists, in other words it's THERE. Now take something like an "external reality". You can't see it, you can't sense it, it doesn't clearly exist, in other words it's NOT THERE. This leads to: only the things that are evident (you have direct access to) are THERE. Everything else clearly does not clearly exist. This is what really scares me, and I've had this issue for 3-4 months now.
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#916  Postby asdfjkl » Jun 04, 2012 11:23 pm

Any thoughts?
asdfjkl
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 349

Print view this post

Re: Solipsism...(tied to other thread)

#917  Postby orpheus » Jun 05, 2012 12:13 am

The title says "Solipsism...(tied to other thread)".

What other thread? This is the only thread.
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#918  Postby Spinozasgalt » Jun 05, 2012 12:20 am


!
MODNOTE
asdfjkl, despite two previous general notes and individual advice aimed your way, you have continued to start separate threads on this same topic here and here. The previous advice was clear about the consequences of disregarding the staff request and yet you have continued to do so, as well as disregarding other advice from your previous warnings about bumping threads excessively. You have left the staff with little choice in this matter.

You hereby receive a warning. This is your fifth active warning and brings with it a 6 month suspension from the forum. If you choose to return to the forum after this suspension, I strongly suggest that you take the mod advice and warnings you have received into account and alter your behaviour.

Your duplicate topics have been merged here.

Please do not discuss this warning here. If there are questions about this note, please feel free to contact me by PM. Alternatively, you can open a thread in the Feedback forum.

Spinozasgalt
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

Kacey Musgraves
User avatar
Spinozasgalt
RS Donator
 
Name: Jennifer
Posts: 18767
Age: 33
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#919  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jun 05, 2012 1:40 am

:party:

New bar's open. Where's Campermon when you need him?
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
User avatar
SafeAsMilk
 
Name: Makes Fails
Posts: 14529
Age: 41
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Self-evidence (main q)

#920  Postby BlackBart » Jun 05, 2012 10:30 am

So, does he still exist now we can't see him?
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12216
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest