The final social revolution

... has nothing to do with science

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Re: The final social revolution

#21  Postby Ironclad » Mar 16, 2019 6:42 am

Good morning :)
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
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Re: The final social revolution

#22  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 16, 2019 7:24 am

Ironclad wrote:Good morning :)


I think you mean, "goon morning".
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: The final social revolution

#23  Postby Hermit » Mar 16, 2019 7:29 am

God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
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Re: The final social revolution

#24  Postby Ironclad » Mar 16, 2019 9:44 am

No no, today is a good morning. :)
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
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Re: The final social revolution

#25  Postby SafeAsMilk » Mar 16, 2019 1:20 pm

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Put away the booze and go to bed, jamest. Spend your time being with and loving your family instead of posting this meaningless gibberish that doesn't tell anyone anything and serves no clear purpose except to stroke your ego.

I don't bend into the wind, especially farts.

Now that you mention it, "Dutch oven" is the perfect way to describe your late night drunken posts :lol:
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
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Re: The final social revolution

#26  Postby felltoearth » Mar 16, 2019 1:47 pm

^100
"Walla Walla Bonga!" — Witticism
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Re: The final social revolution

#27  Postby Fallible » Mar 16, 2019 2:07 pm

Paaarp.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: The final social revolution

#28  Postby Alan B » Mar 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Jamest wrote:The final social revolution will/must obviously, by logical default, encompass all minds and be thus irreversible. Hence, the final social revolution = a signal of the end of competing finite mindsets.

That will only ever happen if the minds evolve to become fully telepathic.

I think this thread should be moved to the 'Fantasy' section (if there is one...)

(Although I did enjoy listening to the Goons - takes me back... "abinere for 10 years" :lol: )
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Re: The final social revolution

#29  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 16, 2019 2:47 pm

I've recently been "partying" in a different kind of "internet forum" known variously as "pubs/clubs." They feature fresh young talented DJs and also real live people with faces, which tends to improve my "manners" and prevents me from "posting" toxic nonsense. They also feature something known as "girls" which I must say I find delightful for the most part. Highly recommended.

:cheers:
You're only conscious when you're thinking about consciousness.
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Re: The final social revolution

#30  Postby minininja » Mar 16, 2019 3:01 pm

jamest wrote:
Yet, within the last century we've had two World Wars, Essex, and Donald Trump. Which essentially means that we're generally as retarded as we've ever been.

I know Essex doesn't have the greatest reputation, but am I missing something here or is that an auto-correct error?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: The final social revolution

#31  Postby tuco » Mar 16, 2019 7:05 pm

Francis Fukuyama Postpones the End of History

In February, 1989, ...

Fukuyama’s argument was that, with the imminent collapse of the Soviet Union, the last ideological alternative to liberalism had been eliminated. Fascism had been killed off in the Second World War, and now Communism was imploding. In states, like China, that called themselves Communist, political and economic reforms were heading in the direction of a liberal order.

So, if you imagined history as the process by which liberal institutions—representative government, free markets, and consumerist culture—become universal, it might be possible to say that history had reached its goal. Stuff would still happen, obviously, and smaller states could be expected to experience ethnic and religious tensions and become home to illiberal ideas. But “it matters very little what strange thoughts occur to people in Albania or Burkina Faso,” Fukuyama explained, “for we are interested in what one could in some sense call the common ideological heritage of mankind.”

[snip]

Twenty-nine years later, it seems that the realists haven’t gone anywhere, and that history has a few more tricks up its sleeve. It turns out that liberal democracy and free trade may actually be rather fragile achievements. (Consumerism appears safe for now.) There is something out there that doesn’t like liberalism, and is making trouble for the survival of its institutions.

Fukuyama thinks he knows what that something is, and his answer is summed up in the title of his new book, “Identity: The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment” (Farrar, Straus & Giroux). The demand for recognition, Fukuyama says, is the “master concept” that explains all the contemporary dissatisfactions with the global liberal order: Vladimir Putin, Osama bin Laden, Xi Jinping, Black Lives Matter, #MeToo, gay marriage, isis, Brexit, resurgent European nationalisms, anti-immigration political movements, campus identity politics, and the election of Donald Trump. It also explains the Protestant Reformation, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, Chinese Communism, the civil-rights movement, the women’s movement, multiculturalism, and the thought of Luther, Rousseau, Kant, Nietzsche, Freud, and Simone de Beauvoir. Oh, and the whole business begins with Plato’s Republic. Fukuyama covers all of this in less than two hundred pages. How does he do it?

Not well. Some of the problem comes from misunderstanding figures like Beauvoir and Freud; some comes from reducing the work of complex writers like Rousseau and Nietzsche to a single philosophical bullet point. A lot comes from the astonishingly blasé assumption—which was also the astonishingly blasé assumption of “The End of History?”—that Western thought is universal thought.

[snip]



https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... of-history
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Re: The final social revolution

#32  Postby Thommo » Mar 16, 2019 9:36 pm

jamest wrote:The final social revolution will/must obviously, by logical default, encompass all minds and be thus irreversible. Hence, the final social revolution = a signal of the end of competing finite mindsets.


Not logically, no.

Logically either there will be a never ending sequence of social revolutions (however defined, and whatever order relation one puts on them), or there will be multiple final social revolutions, or there will be multiple social revolutions which are incommensurable with one another at the end of the sequence of social revolutions, or there will be a single final social revolution (where final is used to denote the greatest element of the set of social revolutions under the ordering).

Aside from it not logically being the case that there will, or must, be a final social revolution it is also not logically the case that a social revolution must encompass all minds (because there are multiple societies and a social revolution need not revolutionise every member of a given society). The feminist revolution of the 1960s would not have encompassed the minds of isolated Amazon tribes, let alone any minds which may or may not belong to extraterrestrials within our galaxy, cosmos, multiverse (if one exists) or beyond (if a larger superstructure exists). Had the human population of the world been wiped out the next day in a meteorite collision this would be an example of the final social revolution not encompassing all minds. It would also (as many other social revolutions were to at least some extent coterminous with the feminist revolution, such as the sexual revolution or the revolution on gay rights laws in many countries) potentially be an example of a situation in which there was no single final social revolution.

So what does logic actually tell us about this situation? Not terribly much, other than that the assertions in the OP are incorrect, as far as they claim to represent anything logical.

I suspect (but the OP isn't tremendously cogent on the point) that really what is meant is nothing about logic, but rather that if there were a social revolution so profound that it solved all problems and revolutionised all human thought, behaviour and society to the point no further revolution would ever be useful or required, and that the profundity of this revolution were so great it would spread to all corners of the globe, then no further social revolution would occur. This would not be a logical statement, but rather a statement of faith. I also suspect that the OP is alluding to having such a profound revolution ready and raring to go.

This seems rather unlikely.

PS:
jamest wrote:...for those of us dumb enough to ignore the bigger picture, solace can be found in thumbs-ups...

jamest wrote:I have to confess that few people love me, either here or elsewhere, but I am not concerned.


As usual, the irony and blatant oxymoronic nature of these statements made me laugh out loud. So I give the OP a thumbs up. :thumbup:


PPS: I also couldn't help repeatedly noticing how similar the thread title was to a certain well known phrase:
"The final social revolution" which makes it look like a nasty and/or unfortunate bit of word association has inadvertently taken place, given the phrase was all over the news all day long after the NZ terror attacks in the hours running up to this OP.
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Re: The final social revolution

#33  Postby Spinozasgalt » Mar 17, 2019 3:24 am

I'm a Spinning Jenny!
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

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Re: The final social revolution

#34  Postby laklak » Mar 17, 2019 3:44 am

Is this going to be a Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution? The last one got a bit dodgy, if we're going to be honest about it.
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: The final social revolution

#35  Postby Hermit » Mar 17, 2019 4:51 am

laklak wrote:Is this going to be a Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution?

No, no, nonononono. On the contrary, this one will be idealist - the complete opposite of the materialist revolution. Every experiencer will meld with every other experiencer, thus ending the existence of competing finite mindsets. There will be strings, of course. Lots of strings, but this is a good thing. It will/must obviously, by logical default, encompass all minds and be thus irreversible because...

Oh, wait, JamesT can explain it much better than I. You'll just have to wait until he is sufficiently recovered from his hangover to resume shitposting.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


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Re: The final social revolution

#36  Postby Sendraks » Mar 17, 2019 8:34 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:I'm a Spinning Jenny!


You spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record baby, right round, round, round.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

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Re: The final social revolution

#37  Postby Fallible » Mar 17, 2019 11:21 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:I'm a Spinning Jenny!


I don't - mean to - brag, but I be like - 'put it - in the - bag'. When you see them racks, they be stacked up like my ass, yeah.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: The final social revolution

#38  Postby Blackadder » Mar 17, 2019 3:05 pm

jamest wrote:I have to confess that few people love me, either here or elsewhere, but I am not concerned.


Image
That credulity should be gross in proportion to the ignorance of the mind that it enslaves, is in strict consistency with the principle of human nature. - Percy Bysshe Shelley
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Re: The final social revolution

#39  Postby Spinozasgalt » Mar 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Fallible wrote:
Spinozasgalt wrote:I'm a Spinning Jenny!


I don't - mean to - brag, but I be like - 'put it - in the - bag'. When you see them racks, they be stacked up like my ass, yeah.

I’m so tired of moving on, spending every weekend so far gone. Heat wave, nothing to do. Woke up in my clothes having dreamt of you.
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

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Re: The final social revolution

#40  Postby Fallible » Mar 18, 2019 8:49 am

Your silence is a weapon, it's like a nuclear bomb. It's like the agent orange they used to use in Vietnam. And it's accompanied by an apathy that's deafening to the ear, and it is complete and perfect and you wield it without fear.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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