The mental disease of 'culture'.

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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#21  Postby jamest » Apr 19, 2019 11:27 pm

romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:
You don't dislike people anyway, you dislike their characteristics, generally. I reside within the same boat and I'm here informing you that those characteristics are generally a consequence of the mental disease derived from a particular culture.

Yes … you belong to a relatively exclusive culture. So what are the characteristics of your mental disease?

I reside within no circle. I'm completely alone. Therefore, effectively 'cultureless'.

I mean, who else other than a cultureless individual could have made the OP?
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#22  Postby romansh » Apr 19, 2019 11:37 pm

jamest wrote:
romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:
You don't dislike people anyway, you dislike their characteristics, generally. I reside within the same boat and I'm here informing you that those characteristics are generally a consequence of the mental disease derived from a particular culture.

Yes … you belong to a relatively exclusive culture. So what are the characteristics of your mental disease?

I reside within no circle. I'm completely alone. Therefore, effectively 'cultureless'.

I mean, who else other than a cultureless individual could have made the OP?

An extremely self unaware one?
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#23  Postby jamest » Apr 19, 2019 11:45 pm

What I find heart-breaking is that not a single individual here has (yet) addressed the deeply-profound and thought-provoking OP with any semblance of sincerity. Those are my sincere feelings on the matter, which leads me to conclude that contrary to my wishes, nothing's going to change here (the world) until something devastating happens.

Likewise, I watched David Attenborough's documentary on global warming yesterday. I came to a similar conclusion: that (unfortunately) fuck all will change until devastation occurs.

Don't ever complain that your chance to avoid devastation was never presented to you. You've only got yourselves to blame for the sorrows ahead.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#24  Postby jamest » Apr 19, 2019 11:49 pm

romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:
romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:
You don't dislike people anyway, you dislike their characteristics, generally. I reside within the same boat and I'm here informing you that those characteristics are generally a consequence of the mental disease derived from a particular culture.

Yes … you belong to a relatively exclusive culture. So what are the characteristics of your mental disease?

I reside within no circle. I'm completely alone. Therefore, effectively 'cultureless'.

I mean, who else other than a cultureless individual could have made the OP?

An extremely self unaware one?

That doesn't even make sense.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#25  Postby romansh » Apr 19, 2019 11:51 pm

jamest wrote:Don't ever complain that your chance to avoid devastation was never presented to you. You've only got yourselves to blame for the sorrows ahead.

So how did your family's trip to the States help avoid devastation James?

I only ask because I have booked my round the world trip.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#26  Postby romansh » Apr 19, 2019 11:53 pm

jamest wrote:
That doesn't even make sense.

It would to those of us who are self aware.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#27  Postby jamest » Apr 20, 2019 12:08 am

romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:
That doesn't even make sense.

It would to those of us who are self aware.

Nobody is actually self aware unless they know the truth of themselves. Make no mistake, at the very least that assessment must be devoid of cultural poisoning otherwise all you'll be parroting is a cultural awareness of oneself.

In other words, you'll never be self aware unless you first take note of the OP and engage any future assessment accordingly.

Self assessment is not something to be filtered through any cultural prism. Do you at least understand that notion? If not, then remain paddling in the shallow end for there is nowhere else for you to go and I will leave you in peace. But you're an intelligent individual, Sir. If somebody like you cannot grasp the significance of that bolded sentence, above, then I have to accept that, yes, there's no fucking point in my attempts to explain this to anyone else either. :waah:
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#28  Postby jamest » Apr 20, 2019 12:28 am

romansh wrote:
jamest wrote:Don't ever complain that your chance to avoid devastation was never presented to you. You've only got yourselves to blame for the sorrows ahead.

So how did your family's trip to the States help avoid devastation James?

It helped in the sense that I came back with the feeling that I can achieve anything that I want, since you ask. As for my family, I'm hoping that it will develop them similarly. Since we've come back, we've made plans to move home to a new area which will hopefully happen in July. This will involve major transformations for all of us. There's nothing worse in life than being comfortable within stagnation. I myself am hoping to be wholly self-sufficient by then. My wife too. The kids will benefit too, even though they won't know it for several years.

I can't change the world, Sir. All I can do is explain why it needs to change.

I only ask because I have booked my round the world trip.

I of course envy you but not so to the extent that I fail to convey my message to you to get the most out of it. Enjoy, Sir.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#29  Postby surreptitious57 » Apr 20, 2019 1:34 am

I dont think you can find salvation by rejecting all culture. Even if you do your mindset will still be influenced by culture
But it is wrong to think of it as a single monolithic entity rather than a collection of many different philosophies acquired
through time. You reject everything you become a nihilist which is a philosophical position and therefore a part of culture

Idealism is a philosophical position too and therefore a part of culture. You are therefore not as cultureless as you would
like to think you are james. For to be truly cultureless one would have to have absolutely no experience of culture at all

But I do agree with the general principle of questioning everything and learning to think for yourself instead of just blindly
accepting everything that you are told [ although I dont think anyone actually does - I think that its more subtle than this ]
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#30  Postby jamest » Apr 20, 2019 1:57 am

surreptitious57 wrote:I dont think you can find salvation by rejecting all culture. Even if you do your mindset will still be influenced by culture

No it won't because I can guarantee that my philosophy is absolutely unique in its details. Therefore, in its details you won't find any cultural parroting. I don't even have much knowledge when it comes to idealism. Everything I say about it is a consequence of my own reflections.

But it is wrong to think of it as a single monolithic entity rather than a collection of many different philosophies acquired
through time. You reject everything you become a nihilist which is a philosophical position and therefore a part of culture

Incorrect. Rejecting culture outright doesn't result in one automatically becoming a nihilist, since nihilism has been around since the 19th century and was initially (afaik) anyway only a judgement that the cultural idea of the Christian God was a load of bollocks.

Idealism is a philosophical position too and therefore a part of culture.

I don't want to keep repeating this but my ideas are my own, many of which are unique/original. As I said in an earlier post, the only philosophy I've actually studied has been materialism/physicalism. I have no cultural idealism to draw from. Yes, I'm aware of the concept and of such characters as Berkeley, but I've never studied them. I know more about you than I know about Berkeley.

You are therefore not as cultureless as you would
like to think you are james.

I didn't proclaim that I was cultureless. After all, I'm English/British/white and the child of a catholic father and protestant mother. North of England, heart of the industrial revolution, brainwashed into being a supporter of one of the most famous football clubs on the planet. Etc..

What I'm saying to you is that at some point in the recent past I saw what a load of bollocks those cultural prisms were in my assessment of 'me'.

For to be truly cultureless one would have to have absolutely no experience of culture at all

Bollocks. To be truly cultureless entails that one assesses oneself in the light of understanding the bollocks of cultural prisms. That is all.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#31  Postby tuco » Apr 20, 2019 2:22 am

I wonder what does it mean in practice?

For example:

Seek yourself within yourself, not the eyes into and of the world.


or

My message here funadamentally amounts to not wasting your lives being the fucking victim/mug of any culture.


Practical example, if you can.

---**

tuco wrote:Whether or not to "sell" one's "soul" is possibly one of the oldest questions.

---
Following is from a seminar on social pathology (its not available in English):

Revolt or Virtual Existence?
Media constructs - substitute for natural world

Adaptation - indentification of young generation with society - typology

1. Adaptation
2. Identification
3. Possible behaviour
4. Potential behaviour in relation to changes in natural society

Group A

1. Adapted
2. Identified
3. Conformal, media directed behaviour
4. Simple reproduction of society

Group B

1. Adapted
2. Not Identified
3. Religious life in church
4. In natural society subject to revolution

Group C

1. Not Adapted
2. Identified
3. Criminal activity - delinquency
4. Subject to criminal behaviour

Group D

1. Not Adapted
2. Not Identified
3. Escape to cyberspace, to drug altered consciousness, spirituality
4. In natural society possbile subject to revolt or revolution

[snip]

The main stream inside young generation is adapted and identified. Pronounced tool of social conformity of today's are "mainstream" media (in any form ..) which in society, calling itself democratic, have similar social function as repressive organs of state in totalitarian regime. Media with ever growing rate, produce and imprint in minds and consciousness of humans reality virtual, which does not or just little reflects the reality of natural world... etc etc

[snip]

---

Which group are you in? The answer is/could be only up to you.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#32  Postby surreptitious57 » Apr 20, 2019 2:25 am

How do you know that your idealism is purely a consequence of your own thoughts and nothing else ?
You cannot be absolutely certain that you have not been subconsciously influenced here in some way
You are way more likely to have come to that position with some pre existing knowledge already in place
Why would your mind suddenly accept that philosophical position over all others for no apparent reason ?
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#33  Postby tuco » Apr 20, 2019 2:42 am

As I noted in my initial post here you are asking the impossible, jamest. Humans do not work like that, its encoded in our brains and zoon would tell us his favorite story how it became to be. Distribution among the mentioned groups follows the Gauss, or similar, curve is my guess. There will always be mainstream, the mediocres, and there will always be those on the fringes. So if you want to change something, you need to accept this and follow from there, in my opinion. In other words, you need to get the mediocres on your side.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#34  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 20, 2019 3:08 am

jamest wrote:What I find heart-breaking is that not a single individual here has (yet) addressed the deeply-profound and thought-provoking OP with any semblance of sincerity.



I studied Anthropology undergraduate and was obliged to do a Social Anthropology unit each year. For the 3rd year, the unit was incredibly tough; clashing all the ideas by various sociologists, ethnographers, and anthropologists about what culture is, the meaning of culture, of how it pervades even the grammar of our thoughts.

Your OP is not deep or thought-provoking, jamest. Its a bunch of assertions which you have not only not evidenced, you've actually evidenced the exact opposite.

Seems like nothing has changed. Every thought you have is still the greatest thought that's ever been had, even when the thought expressed is as deep as a puddle. Your OP is functionally equivalent to someone challenging an evolutionary biologist that evolution can't be true because if we evolved from monkeys, how can there still be monkeys? It displays no comprehension of culture at all, and the only reason the thread will continue is because you refuse to believe that anything you produce isn't intrinsically worthy while somehow maintaining that everyone else is just running unthinkingly along the ruts only you have escaped.

It's bad enough to engage in public masturbation, but obliging others to be your effect your self-gratification is where it all goes terribly wrong.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#35  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 20, 2019 3:11 am

No it won't because I can guarantee that my philosophy is absolutely unique in its details.


No. You can assert it, but you can't guarantee it. Your guarantees are not worth anything at all - that's not how knowledge acquisition works. You have to evidence it. Your philosophy is just idealism without much knowledge about the world or the landscape of human thoughts.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#36  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 20, 2019 4:39 am

Let's bring some actual substance to this thread by raising the explanations of people who have actually thought deeply about culture, who have actually engaged in the multi-generational discussion on what it constitutes, and who aren't just trying to shout loud LOOK AT ME!

Culture consists of patterns, explicit and implicit, of and for behaviour acquired and transmitted by symbols, constituting the distinctive achievements of human groups, including their embodiment in artifacts; the essential core of culture consists of traditional (i.e. historically derived and selected) ideas and especially their attached values; culture systems may, on the one hand, be considered as products of action, on the other, as conditional elements of future action.

Kroeber and Kluckhohn, 1952

Culture is a fuzzy set of basic assumptions and values, orientations to life, beliefs, policies, procedures and behavioural conventions that are shared by a group of people, and that influence (but do not determine) each member’s behaviour and his/her interpretations of the ‘meaning’ of other people’s behaviour.

Spencer-Oatey, 2008

Culture consists of the derivatives of experience, more or less organized, learned or created by the individuals of a population, including those images or encodements and their interpretations (meanings) transmitted from past generations, from contemporaries, or formed by individuals themselves.

Schwartz, 1992

... culture is a derivative of individual experience, something learned or created by individuals themselves or passed on to them socially by contemporaries or ancestors... such a conception of culture differs from ones that have dominated thinking in much of the social sciences, especially in international relations and conflict resolution. For one thing, in this concept, culture is seen as something much less stable or homogenous than in the concepts proposed by others. Our idea of culture focuses less on patterning and more on social and cognitive processing than older ideas of culture do. For another, by linking culture to individuals and emphasizing the number and diversity of social and experiential settings that individuals encounter, we expand the scope of reference of culture to encompass not just quasi-or pseudo-kinship groups (tribe, ethnic group, and nation arethe usual ones) but also groupings that derive from profession, occupation, class, religion, or region. This reorientation supports the idea that individuals reflect or embody multiple cultures and that “culture” is always psychologically and socially distributed in a group. Compared with the older approach, which connected a singular, coherent, and integrated culture to unproblematically defined social groups, this approach makes the idea of culture more complicated. Such complication is necessary, because the world of social action, including conflict and its resolution, is a complex one, and we need a different concept to capture it.

Avruch, 1998
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#37  Postby LucidFlight » Apr 20, 2019 4:48 am

On a positive note, observed culture is not culture in itself. Maybe the reality of the situation isn't so bad after all. In the end, it's what God wants to experience. As disciples of Idealism, we should be reminding ourselves of this, and be more accepting and understanding of the perceived shortcomings of certain observed individuals — which may be quite a lot of them. The observed masses can't all be Einstein or Newton. If everyone is special, then no one is special. However, we are all special, as God.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#38  Postby surreptitious57 » Apr 20, 2019 5:11 am

The cultureless james needs to realise that he is using language to convince everyone of his unique culturelessness
And yet he doesnt realise that language is one of the most potent symbols of culture and is universal to all of them
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#39  Postby tuco » Apr 20, 2019 5:21 am

Yes, diversity can be, or even is for some, very annoying but it seems to work well as a safeguard against stagnation.
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Re: The mental disease of 'culture'.

#40  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 20, 2019 5:23 am

jamest wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
I mostly don't like people, and jamest does little to change my mind, all these prodigious efforts to the contrary. For all I know, jamest is trying to convince me I'm right. Spare yourself the effort, pal.

God forbid that I would ever be an advocate of liking people within a philosophy which ultimately states that they do not exist.

You don't dislike people anyway, you dislike their characteristics, generally. I reside within the same boat and I'm here informing you that those characteristics are generally a consequence of the mental disease derived from a particular culture.


So you're the bloke who signs all his letters to the Times as "Disgusted, of Tunbridge Wells". You're wise to keep your thoughts about what does and does not exist out of those letters, in order to have a better chance of seeing them published.

I admit there might be something comforting about saying that nothing I or anyone else experiences is real, because if it was real, it would be horrible. That's fine as a private neurosis, but don't try acting that way in public. Make nice to all those phantoms out there.
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