realNutjob wrote:

Incidentally, you can't avoid change. It has happened to you in many ways over which you have no control even since you posted this claptrap.

Ah but you see, I can change while knowing what I am(love of all that is), so I can stay the same while changing. But don't worry, it's natural not to realize it until you have experienced it for yourself. And you won't do that unless you want to.
Thats all from me in this thread. If you wish to know more, try reading Being And Becoming by Arthur Combs.

Oh, have a word with yourself, Master Po. You appear to think we came down in the last shower. Come back when you have more than pure word salad and 'you won't know what I know until it happens to you.'

Well, I don't believe in free will - we (our perceptual consciousness) are constantly puppets at the whim of genetic and environmental factors beyond our control. Control is an illusion

I would agree that we are mostly under the influence of genetic and environmental factors. But I also think everyone always has free will in choosing whether they love/accept what they experience. And how one looks at one's experience can be the critical factor in shaping what our reality is like. Fear is never a choice, it is never experienced by choice but if we can learn to love the experience of fear, I do not think it can control us.

realNutjob wrote:how one looks at one's experience can be the critical factor in shaping what our reality is like.

Really? How'd ya figure that one out? Department of Tautology Department sent ya. You see, it's already the case that "what our reality is like" is identical to looking at our experience of it. So A = A. How can our experience of it be different to our experience of it? By inventing bullshit that has no basis in evidence? Did you have any other deep truths you wanted to reveal?

O, Little Idiot, come out, come out, wherever the fuck you are.

realNutjob wrote:

Well, I don't believe in free will - we (our perceptual consciousness) are constantly puppets at the whim of genetic and environmental factors beyond our control. Control is an illusion

I would agree that we are mostly under the influence of genetic and environmental factors. But I also think everyone always has free will in choosing whether they love/accept what they experience. And how one looks at one's experience can be the critical factor in shaping what our reality is like. Fear is never a choice, it is never experienced by choice but if we can learn to love the experience of fear, I do not think it can control us.

Well done for having an opinion. Next, try to have one that makes a fraction of sense. I won't ask for something that doesn't make me involuntary contract my sphincter in embarrassment just yet.

Well done for having an opinion. Next, try to have one that makes a fraction of sense. I won't ask for something that doesn't make me involuntary contract my sphincter in embarrassment just yet.

Really? How'd ya figure that one out? Department of Tautology Department sent ya. You see, it's already the case that "what our reality is like" is identical to looking at our experience of it. So A = A. How can our experience of it be different to our experience of it? By inventing bullshit that has no basis in evidence? Did you have any other deep truths you wanted to reveal?

O, Little Idiot, come out, come out, wherever the fuck you are.

Perhaps you folks have a point. Maybe I should have said 'change of experience'. And its such an obvious truth that it flew over my head until I really contemplated and realized. Do you truly wish to grasp what it means to BE love? I am not preaching some dogma here. I wouldn't expect you to believe what I know without have subjective proof of your own. But when you can be love of everything, even your fear, you are truly free.

Have either of you read Sam Harris' Waking Up?

Ugh... no, you're imparting some uniquely revolutionary stuff here, and none of us has come across it before.

realNutjob wrote:Do you truly wish to grasp what it means to BE love?

What's all this 'grasping' going to accomplish, Paladin? Is there some spoon-bending in the offing? Keep working it, pal. Maybe you'll get things straightened out.

realNutjob wrote:
I would agree that we are mostly under the influence of genetic and environmental factors. But I also think everyone always has free will in choosing whether they love/accept what they experience. And how one looks at ones experience can be the critical factor in shaping what our reality is like

One can choose to accept what they experience but one has no control over reality. It imposes itself on everyone. The way to accommodate this imposition is to accept it rather than fight it. I do that by adopting an emotionally neutral disposition
I keep negative emotions like anger to a minimum. I avoid wasting mental energy on worrying. I detach my self from things which have zero impact upon my life. I accept the inevitability of death. The combination of all these factors makes me as accepting of reality as is humanly possible. Even if things go badly for me I simply let them be. I do not fight them. As they will pass as all things do. As a consequence I am now as grounded as I have ever been. And this is a good place for me. It is where I want to be and will continue to be for the remainder of my days

I thought there was OCD. That's an anxiety disorder.

There is OCD but as you know mine is at the mild end of the spectrum so is entirely manageable. By becoming more acceptable of reality it has less negative impact upon my thinking. I will always have it but I can control the degree
to which it will impact upon me if I choose to do so which I do. But it is a work in progress and has taken me twelve
years to get where I am. One needs patience for this. It does not come straight away. I was never patient by nature
but changing my mental attitude has made me become so. I am now in the best mental space that I can possibly be

I don't know that it's mild at all, based on some of the things you have said, but we've covered this ground before and it left me feeling mean so no point going there again. I still am sceptical about what you say here in the light of other things you have said, but that's my own opinion and I will just continue to have it quietly from now on I think.

I promised myself not to argue with you whilst you are recovering. And so I am not going to pursue this anymore anyway since it never ends well. But I have no problem with you being sceptical. I cannot prove anything to you but have definitely seen an improvement in my mental health over the last twelve years as I said. I avoid trying to force anyone to accept the truth value of what I am saying now. All I do is present the truth as best I can. How anyone reacts to it is beyond my control which is why I do not force an issue anymore. So I think we will it leave there for now

surreptitious57 wrote:
One can choose to accept what they experience but one has no control over reality. It imposes itself on everyone. The way to accommodate this imposition is to accept it rather than fight it. I do that by adopting an emotionally neutral disposition
I keep negative emotions like anger to a minimum. I avoid wasting mental energy on worrying. I detach my self from things which have zero impact upon my life. I accept the inevitability of death. The combination of all these factors makes me as accepting of reality as is humanly possible. Even if things go badly for me I simply let them be. I do not fight them. As they will pass as all things do. As a consequence I am now as grounded as I have ever been. And this is a good place for me. It is where I want to be and will continue to be for the remainder of my days

That's pretty much how I feel now surreptitious. And it took me several psychotic experiences to realize. My consciousness may be simply a result of neurologic physical processes. Or it may be something more. The former would imply that there is no 'me'....that I am simply a robot reacting to physical change. The latter would imply that change is more than a result of physical laws. Science does not yet have a cohesive explanation of gravity and yet it a fundamentally observed and recognized force ----- similarly, I believe love is the most basic force that results in change in consciousness. I cannot explain it; but I know it to be true. It is not purely conjecture either since I have observed its effects on my life and healing.

The mental me is not the same as the aware me. One is based on experiences ---- the other is an identity as nothingness that loves what it is and also loves change in what it is. So essentially I am change in what I am while staying what I am.