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logical bob wrote:The Zeno quote you have there sounds almost environmentalist, but when the Stoics talked about nature they were talking about their belief that all matter is suffused with pneuma, a sort of life force composed of fire and air, and structured by the logos or universal reason. These would not be easy beliefs to hold today.
I suppose that if you wanted a bad point it would be that Stoicism would suggest that people in bad situations should learn to accept their situation rather than change it. The social ramifications of this aren't great.
logical bob wrote:Stoicism generates nice quotes for sure, but it would be very difficult to be a Stoic in the modern world. Stoicism ties the whole of philosophy together in one system that includes an understanding of logic and physics that has been long superseded. It's interesting, but interesting in a historical way.
You have to put the quotes in context. The Zeno quote you have there sounds almost environmentalist, but when the Stoics talked about nature they were talking about their belief that all matter is suffused with pneuma, a sort of life force composed of fire and air, and structured by the logos or universal reason. These would not be easy beliefs to hold today.
I suppose that if you wanted a bad point it would be that Stoicism would suggest that people in bad situations should learn to accept their situation rather than change it. The social ramifications of this aren't great.
jamest wrote:Sounds like pantheism.
Zwaarddijk wrote:A similar phenomenon probably has been involved when eastern religions got popular in the west. Especially Buddhism seems to be good at generating nice guotes. The specifics things you get along with buddhism may not be exactly of the same kind as in Stoicism, but there's still a large context involved in Buddhism, various forms of Hinduism, etc. Contexts that a lot of the more superficial western fans of these religions seldom have even the faintest clue about.
And third, for those readers who find the central ideas of Stoicism appealing either in a purely intellectual way or in the moral imagination, the ongoing confrontation with Stoicism is one which refines philosophical intuitions, challenges both imagination and analytical talents, and leads ultimately to hard philosophical choices which, if taken seriously, define the kind of life one chooses to lead.
logical bob wrote:Zwaarddijk wrote:A similar phenomenon probably has been involved when eastern religions got popular in the west. Especially Buddhism seems to be good at generating nice guotes. The specifics things you get along with buddhism may not be exactly of the same kind as in Stoicism, but there's still a large context involved in Buddhism, various forms of Hinduism, etc. Contexts that a lot of the more superficial western fans of these religions seldom have even the faintest clue about.
There do seem to be surprising similarities between Stoic ethics and Buddhist ethics, both holding that virtue is found in suppressing emotion and desire.
logical bob wrote:I suppose that if you wanted a bad point it would be that Stoicism would suggest that people in bad situations should learn to accept their situation rather than change it.
andrewk wrote:
That's a great article. Thanks for posting it. I think I'll get his book on Stoicism, having read the article.
Having recently read a book on Cognitive Behaviour Therapy ("Change Your Thinking" by Sarah Edelman), I can't help noticing there seems to be quite a strong similarity between the CBT and the Stoic approaches to dealing with misfortune, resentment and anxiety. Not surprising then that CBT is the one form of psychotherapy that has very widespread support in the medical and psychological professions, and a good track record of success.
Mantisdreamz wrote:I have read a bit on Stoicism in the past. And the simplest interpretation I took from it was having the philosophy in life, to just be passive and have a sort of indifference to things going on. Kind of like, watching events pass by, without having much emotional involvement.
The only thing that bugs me about this, is that I tend to think of emotional responses as being sometimes cathartic and healthy.
logical bob wrote:I'm sceptical about the idea of modern Stoicism. The pantheism and the Greek physics and logic were an integral part of Stoicism. As has already been pointed out, the modern version seems to owe more to CBT and the 12 Step Programme.
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