Why do we love scenery?

on fundamental matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind and ethics.

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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#101  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2018 1:14 am

I'm going to bed. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me, I know it pains you.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#102  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2018 1:29 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:Emotions, values, etc., these are the subjective values of 'folk-psychology'

No they aren't. You objectively feel emotions, you objectively hold values. Just because your preference for black raspberry ice cream is subjective, does not mean you don't objectively prefer black raspberry ice cream. How many times are you going to make this incredibly basic, incredibly idiotic mistake?

I had you down as an intelligent guy.

I can always count on you to thump your chest right before tripping on your own shoelaces.

I intimately KNOW [qualitatively] the values of my emotions and sensations. Of course, a physicalist cannot. If you don't understand the difference between "I love you" and "Chemical X wants me to fuck you" [or suchlike] then perhaps you're a bot.

I do know the difference, that doesn't change the fact that they're both the result of physical processes. If you're claiming emotions come from some magical place beyond the physical realm, then you apparently don't know that much. There's no debate about this. No emotion has ever been observed to exist outside of a brain to express it.

In either case, up your fucking game. At the moment it's in the gutter.

This is funny coming from the guy who's just assuming his conclusion.

I'm speaking to you now because I like you, but if you continue acting the political goat I'll get bored. Actually, I'm bored already, so consider this post as a charitable gift.

It's kinda hard to believe you're bored in your own thread where you haven't even begun to flesh out or defend your position at all. I mean, do you honestly think you're fooling anyone?
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#103  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

jamest wrote:
I mean, as far as I can tell, from the PHYSICALIST perspective alone, I'm doomed to finding all 'birds' outside of the teens-thirtyish band as relatively ugly, for what other values other than physical values does science have to play with? I mean, "her taste in music" doesn't even register on a physical scale, squire, so consider the question seriously.

As far as anyone can tell, you don't have the foggiest clue what the "physicalist perspective" is. Literally anything involved with the physical world is on the physicalist scale. Music is made in the physical world, with physical instruments, played by physical people, using the rules of physics. If the woman wasn't physical, she wouldn't have a "taste in music". Stop tripping on your laces.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#104  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2018 1:58 am

I've just cleaned my teeth etc, but before I go to bed I couldn't resist responding to this.

It appears by your own spiel that you have no clue what the consequences are [of my opinion] for a physicalist mindset to a physicalist narrative. Well, let me educate you, as such would entail that you STOP using ALL but terms/formulae acceptable to science as factual. Let me educate you further: there's no formula for 'love'.

You're starting to bore me, squire. I mean, I don't mind being challenged/berated etc., but it's the quality of the challenge that matters. For instance, I gotta love Cito and Cali even if I think they're short of a few planks.

I like a bit of banter, but these days you're even short of that. So, up your game in either respect or expect fuck all from me from now on. In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not desperate for attention.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#105  Postby Thommo » Feb 09, 2018 2:02 am

jamest wrote:It appears by your own spiel that you have no clue what the consequences are [of my opinion] for a physicalist mindset to a physicalist narrative. Well, let me educate you [INSERT REASON AND ARGUMENT HERE], as such would entail that you STOP using ALL but terms/formulae acceptable to science as factual.


I've indicated the critical part of your post that seems to have gone missing in the drafting process.

You keep banging on about reasoning, but it's entirely absent from this post, as well as your previous posts in this thread.

The whole debate between physicalism and idealism falls into that chasm in the middle of your post. It is not clear that there must be an exact formula for every physical problem, in fact it appears that the opposite is obviously true e.g. three body problems, wavefunction collapse. Nor is it clear that if such a formula is not presently known that would prevent the subject being amenable to physicalism.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#106  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2018 2:38 am

jamest wrote:I've just cleaned my teeth etc, but before I go to bed I couldn't resist responding to this.

It appears by your own spiel that you have no clue what the consequences are [of my opinion] for a physicalist mindset to a physicalist narrative.

No, I get that you think your cartoon idea of physicalism must suffer the consequences of your opinion. I'm not really sure that they do, but I certainly don't. If the job you did of cleaning your teeth is anything like the job you did here of defending your position, then better get back into the bathroom.

Well, let me educate you, as such would entail that you STOP using ALL but terms/formulae acceptable to science as factual. Let me educate you further: there's no formula for 'love'.

Your cartoonish apprehension of science is funny, almost as funny as your pretense that you're in any position to educate anyone about it.

You're starting to bore me, squire.

You've been boring me for ages, peasant.

I mean, I don't mind being challenged/berated etc., but it's the quality of the challenge that matters. For instance, I gotta love Cito and Cali even if I think they're short of a few planks.

I like how you still haven't said a single thing to defend anything you've claimed in this thread.

I like a bit of banter, but these days you're even short of that. So, up your game in either respect or expect fuck all from me from now on. In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not desperate for attention.

I never get anything other than fuck all from you, and I'd call dropping some random gobbeldygook OP then prancing away while slapping yourself on the back like you've just solved world hunger an INCREDIBLY desperate cry for attention.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#107  Postby felltoearth » Feb 09, 2018 3:00 am

Jamest, why do you keep using square parentheses like someone else is editing your posts?

Have a word, squire.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#108  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2018 3:46 am

He's an IndividualTM. Also, apparently believes that being different is more important than actually making sense.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#109  Postby Destroyer » Feb 09, 2018 5:55 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:Emotions, values, etc., these are the subjective values of 'folk-psychology'

No they aren't. You objectively feel emotions, you objectively hold values. Just because your preference for black raspberry ice cream is subjective, does not mean you don't objectively prefer black raspberry ice cream. How many times are you going to make this incredibly basic, incredibly idiotic mistake?

This is just such an ignorant post that even though I prefer not to get involved in these debates nowadays, I nevertheless feel compelled to respond. You clearly do not understand what the term objective implies. Nothing that is subjective is also objective. If you have a subjective preference for raspberry ice cream then it remains subjective. For something to be objective it must be universal i.e. everyone must also like raspberry ice cream.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#110  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2018 6:54 pm

I don't think you understood what SAM said. He said, basically, that that one hold values and feels emotions is an objective fact, which it is. If you prefer raspberry ice cream, it is an objective fact that you prefer it. I also don't think you understand what 'objective' means. It doesn't mean universal.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#111  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2018 7:13 pm

felltoearth wrote:Jamest, why do you keep using square parentheses like someone else is editing your posts?

Have a word, squire.

Erm, I did a short writing course about two decades ago and picked up the habit there. I guess my teacher was a muppet.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#112  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2018 7:27 pm

Perhaps it's not that your teacher was a muppet, but that you didn't learn how to use them correctly?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#113  Postby Destroyer » Feb 09, 2018 7:28 pm

Fallible wrote:I don't think you understood what SAM said. He said, basically, that that one hold values and feels emotions is an objective fact, which it is. If you prefer raspberry ice cream, it is an objective fact that you prefer it. I also don't think you understand what 'objective' means. It doesn't mean universal.

How is anything that is subjective demonstrably factual?
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#114  Postby Destroyer » Feb 09, 2018 7:35 pm

Objective means to be openly accessible to All; i.e. to be independent of one's own opinions and imaginings because the substance can be accessed universally.
Nothing that is subjective can be accepted as a fact. For the simple reason that it possesses no substance. It cannot be universally detected. It remains entirely illusory, despite how real it may seem.

Anyway I am on my phone right now, so will prefer to wait till I am back on the computer.
Last edited by Destroyer on Feb 09, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#115  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2018 7:36 pm

You're making the same mistake again. The preference is subjective, but the existence of it is not. My favourite colour is teal. I experience emotions. Unless you think I'm lying, these statements are objectively true.
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Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#116  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2018 7:39 pm

Destroyer wrote:Objective means to be openly accessible to All; i.e. to be independent of one's own opinions and imaginings because the substance can be accessed universally.


You've just made that up. The part you copied and pasted from the internet is true (independent of one's own opinions and imaginings), but you added the rest.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#117  Postby Destroyer » Feb 09, 2018 7:54 pm

Fallible wrote:
Destroyer wrote:Objective means to be openly accessible to All; i.e. to be independent of one's own opinions and imaginings because the substance can be accessed universally.


You've just made that up. The part you copied and pasted from the internet is true (independent of one's own opinions and imaginings), but you added the rest.

Nothing is copied by me. Please see my edit. I will be back tomorrow to demonstrate more emphatically.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#118  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2018 7:58 pm

It doesn't matter how emphatically you demonstrate something if it's wrong. It looks like you're on your way to arguing that it cannot be demonstrated that people have preferences and emotions.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#119  Postby Thommo » Feb 09, 2018 8:01 pm

I hope "demonstrate" means demonstrate and not assert.
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Re: Why do we love scenery?

#120  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2018 8:25 pm

Fallible wrote:You're making the same mistake again. The preference is subjective, but the existence of it is not. My favourite colour is teal. I experience emotions. Unless you think I'm lying, these statements are objectively true.

Ayup!
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