Flight Question

Thommo · **#21** by **Thommo** » Apr 12, 2015 11:14 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

Jerome, the man in the balloon cannot travel outside the earth's atmosphere.

You are hiding from the fundamental question.

In a gravity defining mechanism.

At what point does a man in a gravity defying mechanism lose the movement momentum of the earth?

Never. Momentum and angular momentum are conserved quantities.

Any linear acceleration away from the Earth will cause a reduction in angular speed, although as indicated in earlier answers this would be difficult to observe as long as you remain in Earth's atmosphere since the air will move around you and accelerate you.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#22** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 12, 2015 11:18 pm

So any object rising from the earth will have the momentum of the earth, thereby keeping the angle, thus throwing the object in the same direction at the same speed.

Yes?

Jerome Da Gnome · **#23** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 12, 2015 11:22 pm

Whatever speed and angle you left the atmosphere you would keep.

Does the momentum gained from the earth decrease as the atmosphere is depleted?

hackenslash · **#24** by **hackenslash** » Apr 12, 2015 11:23 pm

If you take off in a plane at the equator and fly due West at 1037 mph, you will be standing still relative to the Earth's rotation.

Follow the link in my last post if you're really interested. All is explained there on, with many belly-laughs and jolly japes, to boot.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#25** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 12, 2015 11:26 pm

hackenslash wrote:If you take off in a plane at the equator and fly due West at 1037 mph, you will be standing still relative to the Earth's rotation.

Experimental evidence contradicts this claim.

You can fly east or west in approximately the same time.

hackenslash · **#26** by **hackenslash** » Apr 12, 2015 11:35 pm

Whooosh!

Thommo · **#27** by **Thommo** » Apr 13, 2015 12:23 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:So any object rising from the earth will have the momentum of the earth, thereby keeping the angle, thus throwing the object in the same direction at the same speed.

Yes?

Angle? No.

"Momentum of the Earth"? Also, no. You have your own momentum, one that has an initial value corresponding to a matching speed and angular speed with that of (the surface of) the Earth.

The kinematics of an object "rising from" the Earth will depend on the mechanism of that rise, but crudely speaking if you were shot out of a really powerful cannon that instantly accelerated you to escape velocity (without somehow killing you), then you'd experience a continuous apparent acceleration of the Earth's rotation relative to yourself.

Your questions seem to suggest some certain basic misunderstandings in all this, I think other posters might be right in recommending some high-school level revision for you. Reading up on Newtonian mechanics might help you frame your questions.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#28** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 13, 2015 1:29 am

Am I too dumb to understand, or are you too dumb to explain?

Jerome Da Gnome · **#29** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 13, 2015 1:33 am

A person on the earth has X direction of movement and X speed.

What happens when this person rises from the earth?

So far the answer has been the question 'related to what?', and the atmosphere retains the direction and speed.

These are not answers to the question.

Onyx8 · **#30** by **Onyx8** » Apr 13, 2015 2:10 am

No, a person on the surface of the earth has X, Y, and Z velocities. You need to start there.

Macdoc · **#31** by **Macdoc** » Apr 13, 2015 4:59 am

and the atmosphere retains the direction and speed.

and what the fuck do you think will happen to you ??

:nono:

There is a reason space launches are
a) near the equator
b) take off easterly

FFS stop wasting people's time on basic physics which you clearly haven't a clue about.

You wanted to "experience the earth's rotation", you got your answer -- go lay under a tree at night and watch
Hint - it ain't the stars moving...or haven't you got to the heliocentric verse yet :roll:

Flat earth and COTU perhaps?? :coffee:

Paul · **#32** by **Paul** » Apr 13, 2015 7:01 am

hackenslash wrote:Haven't we already had this trainwreck?

and here

THWOTH · **#33** by **THWOTH** » Apr 13, 2015 7:51 am

What's troubling you Jerome Da Gnome? What issue is you question concerned with? It's hard to tell from here.

Shrunk · **#34** by **Shrunk** » Apr 14, 2015 12:28 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:In a gravity defying mechanism.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#35** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 14, 2015 1:09 am

Onyx8 wrote:No, a person on the surface of the earth has X, Y, and Z velocities. You need to start there.

Right, you right now are traveling in a specific direction and a specific speed, somewhere around 1,000 mph iirc.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#36** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Apr 14, 2015 1:16 am

THWOTH wrote:What's troubling you Jerome Da Gnome? What issue is you question concerned with? It's hard to tell from here.

I am trying to sort the reason Baumgartner landed so close to where he took off.

Onyx8 · **#37** by **Onyx8** » Apr 14, 2015 1:52 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
Onyx8 wrote:No, a person on the surface of the earth has X, Y, and Z velocities. You need to start there.

Right, you right now are traveling in a specific direction and a specific speed, somewhere around 1,000 mph iirc.

In what frame of reference?

felltoearth · **#38** by **felltoearth** » Apr 14, 2015 2:10 am

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
THWOTH wrote:What's troubling you Jerome Da Gnome? What issue is you question concerned with? It's hard to tell from here.

I am trying to sort the reason Baumgartner landed so close to where he took off.

He was directly above his landing spot when he jumped?

Steve · **#39** by **Steve** » Apr 14, 2015 2:21 am

It was a day with very light breeze. That means the air was moving right along with the planet. I am not a physics anything - highschool was a very long time ago - but I expect he moved off base as he went up and moved back on base as he came down.

Also the real danger with that jump was controlling his tumbling as he went so high the air thinned meaning he reached a very high velocity coming down into denser air and that tumble could easily kill you at those high speeds.

Macdoc · **#40** by **Macdoc** » Apr 14, 2015 2:27 am

His balloon would be moving with the air mass of the atmosphere but winds vary at altitude so it likely jinked a bit.

That's a neat thing about balloons....they are quiet even if the wind is blowing as there is no relative wind.

So if you dropped a rock ....then it goes straight down from the frame of reference of the balloon.
So did our intrepid parachutist. He has direction control anyways and did not take him very long to fall/sky dive.

Drop a feather and all bets are off....but you knew that of course. :coffee:

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