'Planet' Pluto comes into view

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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#121  Postby newolder » Jul 18, 2015 9:48 pm

Calilasseia wrote:What's the transmission rate from that spacecraft? Only I seem to recall it was 1 kilobit per second. If that's the case, then 50 gigabits is going to take nearly 18 months to transmit back to Earth.

Yes, that's about right although when Pluto is high in the sky, data rates get up to 4 2 megakilobits (:doh:) per second for an hour or two... but still, downloading data is going to be the main job for the next year plus months. There's not much else to do whilst waiting for the next Kuiper belt object fly-by in 2018.
They have a neat trick that can nearly double New Horizons' data transmission rate, but it comes at a cost of doing simultaneous science. New Horizons' radio system includes two Traveling Wave Tube Amplifiers or TWTAs (pronounced "twittas," like a Bostonian would say "twitters"). The TWTAs amplify the radio signals before they get broadcast from New Horizons' 2.1-meter dish. There are two TWTAs for redundancy: if one fails, the mission will still be able to return data to Earth. But the two TWTAs are not quite identical. One of them transmits radio signals with left-hand circular polarization, and one of them transmits with right-hand circular polarization.

Because they transmit with different polarization, both TWTAs can simultaneously transmit the same data through the dish antenna. On Earth, special hardware at the Deep Space Network can separately receive the two differently-polarized signals, and then combine them to make the signal stronger. Stronger signal means New Horizons can transmit at a higher data rate, about 1.9 times the rate with a single TWTA.

This two-TWTA mode wasn't developed until after launch; they deployed it early in the mission, and it worked well. But radio transmitters are power-hungry. New Horizons' nuclear power source has decayed since it launched nearly a decade ago, and there is no longer enough power to run both TWTAs at the same time as all the other spacecraft subsystems. If they want to nearly double their data rate and reduce their backlog, they need to shut something else down.

Emily Lakwallada blog source

I'm not doing a very good job at researching this but the confusion is entirely mine (I keep remembering snippets of stuff from the past few weeks without proper references to check). But, today, I found another link that talks about 4000 bits per second, some of the time...
But again, once the critical data collection phase is over, the New Horizons team is hopeful that we’ll be able to downlink somewhat faster. The craft is currently configured in what NASA calls ‘three-axis pointing mode’ (aka, Pluto observing mode), but it’ll transition over to ‘spin-stabilized mode’ after the encounter is over. In spin mode, New Horizons will be pointing itself arrow-straight at the Earth, spinning along its axis for increased stability. As a result, NASA reckons we’ll be able to boost downlink speeds to something in the neighborhood of 4,000 bits per second over the next few days. That’ll help New Horizons send us back a sampling of the key scientific data its collecting right now.

4,000 bits per second may be double our current downlink speed, but downloading planetary science data over 3 billion miles is still quite a bit slower than loading your email on a 56K connection. Hence the reason it’s going to take us an estimated 16 months to send home all the data we collect in the next several days.

Gizmodo source
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#122  Postby kennyc » Jul 19, 2015 10:50 pm

OMFG!!!

This guy PROVES it's all faked!

Article at Gizmodo: http://gizmodo.com/these-pluto-truthers ... 1717828679

The youtube he posted:


:drunk: :drunk: :drunk:
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#123  Postby Calilasseia » Jul 19, 2015 11:26 pm

Apparently he's unaware of the vast difference in size between Jupiter and Pluto. Jupiter is huge enough to be naked eye visible even at 400 million miles away, it's over 88,000 miles in diameter. Pluto on the other hand, is a hell of a lot smaller.

Just to illustrate the disparity in size, here's an image of Jupiter, taken by New Horizons during its gravity assist flyby, with the New Horizons image of Pluto alongside it at the same scale ...

Jupiter And Pluto Size Comparison.jpg
Jupiter And Pluto Size Comparison.jpg (118.31 KiB) Viewed 3883 times


For that matter, all four Galilean moons of Jupiter are each individually larger than Pluto. Ganymede alone is twice the diameter of Pluto. Plus, there's the little matter of how the visibility of objects is affected by distance. If the objects are all illuminated by the same light source (in this case, the Sun), then an object at a distance L from the Sun receives an irradiance that is given by C/L2, where C is an appropriate constant of proportionality. An object twice as far away consequently receives an irradiance that is C/4L2 in magnitude. Then you have to factor in that we are observing those objects from that reflected light. Which means that the irradiance we are receiving is given by C'/L'2, where C' is another apporpriate constant of proportionality, and L' is the distance from us to the object. Therefore the total amount of light we are receiving is given by:

I = CC'/(L2L'2)

If we adopt the simplification of setting L' = L, then the irradiance we receive is approximately proportional to 1/L4 (a relationship that is well known to radar technicians, for example, using radio waves instead of light as the illuminating radiation of a target object). So an object viewed by reflected light, instead of being only 1/4 as bright if located twice as far away, will only be 1/16th as bright (the 1/L2 relationship obviously still holds for self-luminous objects). All of this, of course, assumes that the reflectivity of the objects is the same. Obviously, an object with low reflectivity will reduce the value of C' in the above formula, and an object with high reflectivity will increase C' accordingly. So, comparing a gigantic, high-reflectivity object like Jupiter to a far smaller object with lower reflectivity, one that is moreover nearly eight times farther from the Sun than Jupiter, and receiving only between 1/49th and 1/64th of the irradiance therefrom as a corollary, in order to try and push this ludicrous conclusion, is at best the product of woeful scientific ignorance, and at worse openly duplicitous.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#124  Postby klazmon » Jul 20, 2015 3:30 am

If you are interested you can see the activities of the Deep Space Network at http://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html

When I looked Goldstone 14 was set up to listen for New Horizons (NHPC) but not actually receiving at that time.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#125  Postby Animavore » Jul 21, 2015 6:04 pm

A most evolved electron.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#126  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 21, 2015 6:08 pm

Animavore wrote:Interview with that "Truther" guy.

http://www.newsweek.com/inside-pluto-tr ... ked-355150


Must be a slow news week for Newsweek. :rolleyes:
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#127  Postby Animavore » Jul 21, 2015 6:17 pm

The idiot was targetting NASA last year over the Rosetta mission. Rosetta was an ESA endeavour.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#128  Postby Evolving » Jul 21, 2015 7:56 pm

"If space is a vacuum, how could spacecraft traverse it?"

Gosh, I never thought of that. Good point!

I wonder how the Earth traverses it.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#129  Postby newolder » Jul 21, 2015 8:47 pm

Mountains and light to the right, craters and darkness to the left. Another view from Pluto arrives to Earth...
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/nasa ... to-s-heart
“There is a pronounced difference in texture between the younger, frozen plains to the east and the dark, heavily-cratered terrain to the west,” said Jeff Moore, leader of the New Horizons Geology, Geophysics and Imaging Team (GGI) at NASA’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California. “There’s a complex interaction going on between the bright and the dark materials that we’re still trying to understand.”
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#130  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 21, 2015 9:46 pm

Animavore wrote:The idiot was targetting NASA last year over the Rosetta mission. Rosetta was an ESA endeavour.


Image
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#131  Postby Onyx8 » Jul 22, 2015 12:19 am

It's like when you are getting the latest news on the ISS and all of a sudden you're enveloped in discussions by idiots claiming it's all faked.

"That shot was under water." "You can almost see the wires." "What was that outside the window that the camera panned away from so quickly?" Fuuuuuuck!!
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#132  Postby newolder » Jul 24, 2015 4:43 pm

Before today's press conference at 7pm BST, a new false-colour rendition of approaching Pluto:
Image
True colour image here
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#133  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 24, 2015 9:46 pm

I would love to know what processes caused the giant white feature. It looks like two lobes are different in color and texture.
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#134  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 25, 2015 12:18 am

Some new images...

Back lit halo of Pluto's atmosphere:
Image

Nitrogen ice flows from the Sputnik Planum:
Image

Hillary and Norgay Montes:
Image
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#135  Postby newolder » Jul 27, 2015 6:38 pm

Pluto in a minute on data transfer:
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#136  Postby newolder » Aug 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Animated fly-by, by Bjorn Jonssson
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#137  Postby newolder » Aug 28, 2015 11:04 pm

NASA has selected the potential next destination for the New Horizons mission to visit after its historic July 14 flyby of the Pluto system. The destination is a small Kuiper Belt object (KBO) known as 2014 MU69 that orbits nearly a billion miles beyond Pluto.

source and more ...
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#138  Postby Alan B » Aug 29, 2015 9:54 am

I get "302 Removed temporarily"
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#139  Postby newolder » Aug 29, 2015 10:41 am

hmmm... seems to be back now but there's always the jpl mirror if things get tricky again...
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/New ... e=20150828
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Re: 'Planet' Pluto comes into view

#140  Postby newolder » Sep 04, 2015 7:23 pm

Data stream restart tomorrow...
Sep. 4, 2015
NASA’s New Horizons Spacecraft Begins Intensive Data Downlink Phase

If you liked the first historic images of Pluto from NASA’s New Horizons spacecraft, you’ll love what’s to come.

Seven weeks after New Horizons sped past the Pluto system to study Pluto and its moons – previously unexplored worlds – the mission team will begin intensive downlinking of the tens of gigabits of data the spacecraft collected and stored on its digital recorders. The process moves into high gear on Saturday, Sept. 5, with the entire downlink taking about one year to complete.

more...
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