A universe from nothing

Study matter and its motion through spacetime...

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: A universe from nothing

#121  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 29, 2019 4:32 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

You haven't eliminated any opitions.

You can always just make up a story. How are we the wiser for the old answer 'goddidit'?


What's your explanation of the origin of the universe? You too, spearthrower.


What is it you want, PK? Do you really want to put the question to rest, right now? What should an explanation accomplish? If you can't predict anything with it, what else is it good for? Politics?


Sorry I just thought you had some idea.


Keep asking around, PK. Perhaps you'll come across something.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Posts: 28575
Age: 22
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A universe from nothing

#122  Postby Pridefel Knowitelz » Apr 29, 2019 4:33 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:

What's your explanation of the origin of the universe? You too, spearthrower.


What is it you want, PK? Do you really want to put the question to rest, right now? What should an explanation accomplish? If you can't predict anything with it, what else is it good for? Politics?


Sorry I just thought you had some idea.


Keep asking around, PK. Perhaps you'll come across something.


Thanks. Wish me luck!
The burden of proof falls on the ,,,theist.
All ha ...rump.
User avatar
Pridefel Knowitelz
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 134

Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#123  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 4:33 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Oh look, spearthrower just posted another link that He wants me to read.


Do you dislike reading, or something?

How do you think garnering knowledge operates, PK?

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:You know, one of these days I might just go ahead,...


Please do. Education is for everyone.


Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:... seeing as He Himself has no arguments or coherent explanations for His positions, just childish insults hurled at people who don't agree with Him.


Tut tut. This is just trolling, PK.

I've made no insults, childish or otherwise, and I've clearly posted a long and detailed reply to your question in this very thread which you appear to have ignored.

Keep up these transparent rhetorical strategies to inflame rather than discuss, and you'll find you quickly lose your trolling rights here.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 25337
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#124  Postby newolder » Apr 29, 2019 4:34 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:...

What's your explanation of the origin of the universe? ...

You are begging the question that the universe had an origin. Maybe it's always been around, who knows?

Also, no one knows how the current cosmos, that undoubtedly was in a hot dense state nearly 14 billion years ago, got started. The best testable ideas get us back to a tiny fraction of a second. Ideas about what occurred before this are the province of theoretical physicists and that community builds many models that are to be tested by future experiment/logical consistency checks.

Stay tuned or tune out.
Geometric forgetting gives me loops. - Nima A-H
User avatar
newolder
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 6543
Age: 8
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#125  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 29, 2019 4:34 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Did god create itself?


I don't think it makes sense to think that anything can create or give rise to itself, nor do I think that the universe's origins can be explained by going back infinitely through a series of events, ie a big bang preceded by another, and another.

Which of course doesn't leave many options left.

Except that your personal ignorance and incredulity don't dictate reality, so there's quite a lot of options left.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30147
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#126  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 4:35 pm

Can anyone figure out why I suddenly got God pronoun capitalized?
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 25337
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#127  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 29, 2019 4:35 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Which of course doesn't leave many options left.


You haven't eliminated any opitions.

You can always just make up a story. How are we the wiser for the old answer 'goddidit'?


What's your explanation of the origin of the universe? You too, spearthrower.

I do not accept your assertion that the universe had an origin.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30147
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A universe from nothing

#128  Postby Svartalf » Apr 29, 2019 4:43 pm

I accept that the so called big bang is the origin of the universe, I admit to ignorance as to how it came to be and what was where before it happened.
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1400
Age: 50
Male

Country: France
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#129  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 29, 2019 4:48 pm

Svartalf wrote:I accept that the so called big bang is the origin of the universe, I admit to ignorance as to how it came to be and what was where before it happened.

The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30147
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#130  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.


Notionally.

Also the Big Bang is the expansion of our universe (or pocket universe), not the origin of it, because the origin of it would have preceded (assuming that makes any sense whatsoever) the beginning of expansion. Essentially, it's what happened once the/our universe originated.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 25337
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#131  Postby Svartalf » Apr 29, 2019 4:58 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Svartalf wrote:I accept that the so called big bang is the origin of the universe, I admit to ignorance as to how it came to be and what was where before it happened.

The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.

I have no proof as of yet about the existence of parallel universes or of a macro universe of which our one would be only a part.
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1400
Age: 50
Male

Country: France
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#132  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 29, 2019 4:59 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Keep asking around, PK. Perhaps you'll come across something.


Thanks. Wish me luck!


That won't do you much good. There are places you could go to find out whether you were asking good, new questions or asking old questions in an interesting way, but this isn't one of those places. If you went to one of those places, you'd be ignored.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Posts: 28575
Age: 22
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#133  Postby newolder » Apr 29, 2019 5:01 pm

Here are four possible models of a currently expanding universe:
Image

add to these the Conformal Cyclic Cosmology of Roger Penrose (the geometry at bang and future infinity conform - as on the right hand side of the image):
Image

Then there are models with more space dimensions than 3 that give Klein bottle-like shapes for spacetime. e.g.:
Image

Then there are inflationary scenarios that lead inexorably to a multiverse of "bubble universes".
Image

and there are many, many more...

Pick a favourite or wait for future disproofs.... :party:
Last edited by newolder on Apr 29, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Geometric forgetting gives me loops. - Nima A-H
User avatar
newolder
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 6543
Age: 8
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#134  Postby Svartalf » Apr 29, 2019 5:04 pm

Thanks Newolder
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1400
Age: 50
Male

Country: France
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#135  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 5:09 pm

newolder wrote:Pick a favourite or wait for future disproofs.... :party:


:cheers:

I think picking whichever looks most aesthetically pleasing is basically just as valid given contemporary human knowledge, and how little even of that most of us are capable of understanding.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 25337
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: A universe from nothing

#136  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:21 pm

newolder wrote:
Ideas about what occurred before this are the province of theoretical physicists and that community builds many models that are to be tested by future experiment/logical consistency checks.

Stay tuned or tune out.


You wish
Destroyer
 
Name: Patrick Mills
Posts: 1772
Age: 60
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#137  Postby newolder » Apr 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Destroyer wrote:...

You wish


Yes, I neglected to add the "People with ideas that they think are theorems but, in Reality, are just bullshit notions spewed by folk that Capitalise randomly as they write and will only reveal their TruthTM via P.M." - there are lots and lots of those as well.
Geometric forgetting gives me loops. - Nima A-H
User avatar
newolder
 
Name: Albert Ross
Posts: 6543
Age: 8
Male

Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#138  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:36 pm

newolder wrote:
Destroyer wrote:...

You wish


Yes, I neglected to add the "People with ideas that they think are theorems but, in Reality, are just bullshit notions spewed by folk that Capitalise randomly as they write and will only reveal their TruthTM via P.M." - there are lots and lots of those as well.

I am always available to be put to the test.
Destroyer
 
Name: Patrick Mills
Posts: 1772
Age: 60
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#139  Postby LucidFlight » Apr 29, 2019 5:38 pm

PM Destroyer for details.
OFFICIAL MEMBER: QUANTUM CONSTRUCTOR CONSCIOUSNESS QUALIA KOALA COLLECTIVE.
User avatar
LucidFlight
RS Donator
 
Name: Kento
Posts: 10574
Male

Country: UK/US/AU/SG
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: A universe from nothing

#140  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:40 pm

Double post.
Last edited by Destroyer on Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Destroyer
 
Name: Patrick Mills
Posts: 1772
Age: 60
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Physics

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest