A universe from nothing

Study matter and its motion through spacetime...

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Re: A universe from nothing

#141  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:41 pm

Wrong quote.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#142  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:43 pm

LucidFlight wrote:PM Destroyer for details.

You know me so well.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#143  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 5:47 pm

Destroyer wrote:I am always available to be put to the test.


Not really important, is it?

If you had something worth putting to the test, you'd already have put it to the test by publishing it in a relevant peer-reviewed journal.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#144  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 5:48 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Destroyer wrote:I am always available to be put to the test.


Not really important, is it?

If you had something worth putting to the test, you'd already have put it to the test by publishing it in a relevant peer-reviewed journal.

Think as you will.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#145  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 6:02 pm

Destroyer wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Destroyer wrote:I am always available to be put to the test.


Not really important, is it?

If you had something worth putting to the test, you'd already have put it to the test by publishing it in a relevant peer-reviewed journal.


Think as you will.


Of course I will.

It's facile to make claims about how great one's ideas are... a damn sight tougher to establish them as credible within a specialist field.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#146  Postby The_Piper » Apr 29, 2019 6:25 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Did god create itself?


I don't think it makes sense to think that anything can create or give rise to itself, nor do I think that the universe's origins can be explained by going back infinitely through a series of events, ie a big bang preceded by another, and another.

Which of course doesn't leave many options left.
Even if god did create the universe, then either something created god, or god came from nothing. This is not a profound insight, it's mere common sense. You still haven't answered any questions by thinking god did it.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#147  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Destroyer wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Destroyer wrote:I am always available to be put to the test.


Not really important, is it?

If you had something worth putting to the test, you'd already have put it to the test by publishing it in a relevant peer-reviewed journal.


Think as you will.


Of course I will.

It's facile to make claims about how great one's ideas are... a damn sight tougher to establish them as credible within a specialist field.

It's also very easy to test the proficiency of someone's ideas.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#148  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 29, 2019 7:28 pm

Destroyer wrote:It's also very easy to test the proficiency of someone's ideas.


Indeed it is. You submit them to a relevant peer-reviewed journal.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#149  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 29, 2019 7:57 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Svartalf wrote:I accept that the so called big bang is the origin of the universe, I admit to ignorance as to how it came to be and what was where before it happened.

The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.

I have no proof as of yet about the existence of parallel universes or of a macro universe of which our one would be only a part.

You also have no proof that our local universe is all there is.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#150  Postby Destroyer » Apr 29, 2019 8:09 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Destroyer wrote:It's also very easy to test the proficiency of someone's ideas.


Indeed it is. You submit them to a relevant peer-reviewed journal.

Ever heard of a man called 'Job'? Poor fellow has no peers!
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Re: A universe from nothing

#151  Postby Svartalf » Apr 29, 2019 8:13 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Svartalf wrote:I accept that the so called big bang is the origin of the universe, I admit to ignorance as to how it came to be and what was where before it happened.

The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.

I have no proof as of yet about the existence of parallel universes or of a macro universe of which our one would be only a part.

You also have no proof that our local universe is all there is.

As Laplace might say, let"s not introduce variables we don't need in the system.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#152  Postby newolder » Apr 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
The BB is the origin of our local universe, not the universe as a whole.

I have no proof as of yet about the existence of parallel universes or of a macro universe of which our one would be only a part.

You also have no proof that our local universe is all there is.

As Laplace might say, let"s not introduce variables we don't need in the system.

Interesting lay person read from Ethan Siegel in a recent Forbes mag. article from which that first picture in my earlier post came:
How Can We Still See The Disappearing Universe?
...

From its presence (dark energy), and the observations we use to infer its existence, we learn the following about a galaxy located:

closer than 15 billion light-years away: we will someday see it as it is today: 13.8 billion years after the Big Bang, and we could reach it if we set out for it at the speed of light.

between 15 and 46 billion light-years distant: we will always see it, but its age will appear to asymptote to a finite value that's smaller than 13.8 billion years, and we can never reach it, even if we left today at the speed of light.

between 46 and 61 billion light-years away: we cannot yet see it today, but will see it someday in the far future and forever thereafter, and it will never appear even as old as the earliest galaxies currently visible today. We can also never reach it.

greater than 61 billion light-years from us: we will never see or reach it, and anyone from there can never see or reach us.

...

Forbes link
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Re: A universe from nothing

#153  Postby Macdoc » Apr 29, 2019 10:30 pm

Image
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EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
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Re: A universe from nothing

#154  Postby Pridefel Knowitelz » Apr 29, 2019 11:02 pm

The_Piper wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Did god create itself?


I don't think it makes sense to think that anything can create or give rise to itself, nor do I think that the universe's origins can be explained by going back infinitely through a series of events, ie a big bang preceded by another, and another.

Which of course doesn't leave many options left.
Even if god did create the universe, then either something created god, or god came from nothing. This is not a profound insight, it's mere common sense. You still haven't answered any questions by thinking god did it.


If the universe is not a creation by a conscious creator, then what caused the very first physical event in whatever universe in a multiverse (whatever it may be)? Nothing whatsoever?

I'm not asking you to give a definitive answer. I'm just wondering what your speculation is. You don't really think that something can arise from nothing, do you? The buck has to stop somewhere, not at "nothing".

A couple of possibilities to consider are (let me know if you can think of any others) :

An infinite regression of physical events.
A conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, eternal, self existent, omniscient being affectionately known as God Almighty.
The burden of proof falls on the ,,,theist.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#155  Postby surreptitious57 » Apr 30, 2019 12:10 am

My honest answer is I dont actually know and because of this I dont have a preference either way
Maybe its finite or maybe its infinite but I have no problem in not knowing and just leaving it be
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Re: A universe from nothing

#156  Postby Seabass » Apr 30, 2019 12:13 am

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:A conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, eternal, self existent, omniscient being affectionately known as God Almighty.

Which one? Ahura Mazda? Vishnu? Gozer the Gozerian? Shub-Niggurath? Baphomet? Hestia? This guy:


Image

?
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Re: A universe from nothing

#157  Postby Pridefel Knowitelz » Apr 30, 2019 12:14 am

Seabass wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:A conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, eternal, self existent, omniscient being affectionately known as God Almighty.

Which one? Ahura Mazda? Vishnu? Gozer the Gozerian? Shub-Niggurath? Baphomet? Hestia? This guy:


Image

?


That's the one.
The burden of proof falls on the ,,,theist.
All ha ...rump.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#158  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 30, 2019 12:20 am

See also, "Tribute" by Tenacious D.

All of a sudden... there shined a shiny demon... in the middle... of the road...
And he said... "Plaaaaaaaay the best song in the world... or I'll eat your souls"...
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#159  Postby SafeAsMilk » Apr 30, 2019 12:30 am

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Did god create itself?


I don't think it makes sense to think that anything can create or give rise to itself, nor do I think that the universe's origins can be explained by going back infinitely through a series of events, ie a big bang preceded by another, and another.

Which of course doesn't leave many options left.
Even if god did create the universe, then either something created god, or god came from nothing. This is not a profound insight, it's mere common sense. You still haven't answered any questions by thinking god did it.


If the universe is not a creation by a conscious creator, then what caused the very first physical event in whatever universe in a multiverse (whatever it may be)? Nothing whatsoever?

I'm not asking you to give a definitive answer. I'm just wondering what your speculation is. You don't really think that something can arise from nothing, do you? The buck has to stop somewhere, not at "nothing".

A couple of possibilities to consider are (let me know if you can think of any others) :

An infinite regression of physical events.
A conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, eternal, self existent, omniscient being affectionately known as God Almighty.

One of the nice things about not believing in a god is not having to make up things about it to make it seem more plausible. I don't pretend to know if the universe always existed, and I don't have to. But if you want to believe that a person- like deity made it all, then you've got to start making shit up because you haven't got any evidence at all. The evidence for the universe being merely what it is, on the other hand, is unambiguously and undeniably right in front of you. The more we discover, the more we know, no more no less. And although i understand this is difficult for people who want to believe in a God to understand, it's perfectly possible to be satisfied with that.
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Re: A universe from nothing

#160  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 30, 2019 3:58 am

Destroyer wrote:
Ever heard of a man called 'Job'? Poor fellow has no peers!


So it's not science you're talking about: it's mythology.

I get you.
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