Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:The_Piper wrote:Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:The_Piper wrote:Did god create itself?
I don't think it makes sense to think that anything can create or give rise to itself, nor do I think that the universe's origins can be explained by going back infinitely through a series of events, ie a big bang preceded by another, and another.
Which of course doesn't leave many options left.
Even if god did create the universe, then either something created god, or god came from nothing. This is not a profound insight, it's mere common sense. You still haven't answered any questions by thinking god did it.
If the universe is not a creation by a conscious creator, then what caused the very first physical event in whatever universe in a multiverse (whatever it may be)? Nothing whatsoever?
If the dimension of time stretches back a finite amount to a first moment and no further, then the first physical event must be the first transition from the first physical state to the second physical state(from the first to the second moment in time). Such events are caused by the fundamental forces of physics.
If your question is instead concerned withe the universe coming into existence, then it is misplaced, because there is no reason to think the universe was ever not in existence. You can't go back before the first moment of time, as such you can't go back to a time before anything was in existence. As such, it was never the case that the state of affairs was "nothing exists". Since it was never the state of affairs that "nothing exists", then no cause is required to facilitate the coming into existence of something. There was not ever "nothing" in the first place.
You don't really think that something can arise from nothing, do you?
I don't. I also don't believe it is possible to have nothing at all, and then wish really hard and make something appear. I also don't believe in the concept of a mind existing in the absense of a physical brain, or that minds in general can create something without having pre-existing material to work and shape.
But I also don't believe the universe came from nothing. There is no reason to believe that at all.
The buck has to stop somewhere, not at "nothing".
Then it can stop at the first moment of time in the universe's existence, before wich we can't go, because we cannot go further back than the first moment of time.
A couple of possibilities to consider are (let me know if you can think of any others) :
An infinite regression of physical events.
A conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, eternal, self existent, omniscient being affectionately known as God Almighty.
I don't know whether either of these are actually possible in reality. I can certainly imagine them, but I can imagine all sorts of things which might actually be physically impossible. Of course, as I have argued above your suggestions here are not the only options.