"Cold Fusion"

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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#21  Postby twistor59 » Mar 22, 2010 11:04 am

jerome wrote:Interesting. Er, nope, seen no evidence of this "mainstream acceptance" yet - but maybe something has been found. Be interesting to watch

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No, there is a small "Cold Fusion Club" of scientists still working on it and still producing what they think are significant results, but I see no evidence of increasing interest from the mainstream.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#22  Postby jerome » Mar 22, 2010 11:12 am

THat's really interesting. Cold fusion has run and run: one wonder's why? Some replications succeed, some fail. I'm still trying to work out why, and if there really is something to it, or not. I just read the wiki entry from time to time, sad, but all I have time for really!
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#23  Postby tnjrp » Mar 22, 2010 11:19 am

LENR effect have oftentimes been described as exceedingly difficult to detect and in fact even to accomplish -- which would, according to proponents, explain the failure to reproduce it by the "mainstream" science. The article above suggests one of the breakthroughs to be described is a better (cheaper, for one) method for detecting this phenomenon (or group of phenomena, as the case may be).
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#24  Postby jerome » Mar 22, 2010 11:23 am

tnjrp wrote:LENR effect have oftentimes been described as exceedingly difficult to detect and in fact even to accomplish -- which would explain the failure to reproduce it by the "mainstream" science. The article above suggests one of the breakthroughs to be described is a better (cheaper, for one) method for detecting this phenomena (or group of phenomena, as the case may be).



That sounds depressingly like the psi claims in my field, parapsychology. A weak effect, with unknown variables operating, and hard to quantify, so parapsychologists are split if it exists at all and if it does as to what the phenomena actually constitutes - "a bunch of facts in search of a theory" as someone once wrote.

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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#25  Postby tnjrp » Mar 22, 2010 11:28 am

jerome wrote:That sounds depressingly like the psi claims in my field, parapsychology
Well, yes, it rather does, doesn't it? The LENR proponents also sometimes let on that there's a "chemist vs. physicist" feuding involved in the resistance to the idea of "cold fusion", which also does sound like what some parapsychologists might say.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#26  Postby Rome Existed » Mar 22, 2010 11:32 am

Last time I read up on cold fusion a few months ago it was still saying that nothing sends scientists into fits of laughter like cold fusion advocates.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#27  Postby jerome » Mar 22, 2010 11:32 am

Oh we just have feuding between the "para- psychologists" and the "para-physicists". ALmost everyone in para is from a psychology backgrounds - there are only a couple of parapsychology PhD's from physics departments in the UK. Bernard CArr often mentions the problem: if psi exists we expect it to work in accordance with natural law, but no one is looking in the obvious places - at the physics of it!

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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#28  Postby jerome » Mar 22, 2010 11:33 am

Rome Existed wrote:Last time I read up on cold fusion a few months ago it was still saying that nothing sends scientists into fits of laughter like cold fusion advocates.



They obviously have never met Atlantis-advocates!

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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#29  Postby Rome Existed » Mar 22, 2010 11:36 am

jerome wrote:
Rome Existed wrote:Last time I read up on cold fusion a few months ago it was still saying that nothing sends scientists into fits of laughter like cold fusion advocates.



They obviously have never met Atlantis-advocates!

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That at least is probably based upon a real event.
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Re: 'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance

#30  Postby Rawnaeris » Mar 22, 2010 6:42 pm

And I didn't get to go to ACS this year. Damn. I wonder if they will present again at the Fall ACS meeting...

I'll have to try and make it to one of their talks if they do.
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Re: 'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance

#31  Postby iamthereforeithink » Mar 22, 2010 7:12 pm

I don't know much about this, but as far as I can tell, this is about a device for measuring cold-fusion rather than producing it. Doesn't sound particularly revolutionary to me.
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Re: 'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance

#32  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 22, 2010 10:34 pm

About time, man. If something unexplained happens once, you're supposed to look into it until you figure out what happened, not ignore it because you cant make it happen every time.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#33  Postby klazmon » Mar 23, 2010 9:03 am

cateye wrote:
twistor59 wrote:You and I may scoff at the flagrant disregard for Mr Carnot's physics, but:

from the wikipedia entry

The company's investment history shows several share allotments for cash between August 2000 and October 2005,[12] the investments totalling €3 million.[10] In 2006, Steorn secured €8.1 million in loans from a range of investors in order to continue their research, and these funds were also converted into shares.[13] Steorn said that they would seek no further funding while attempting to prove their free-energy claim in order to demonstrate their genuine desire for validation.[13]


So whether it's perpetual motion, or cold fusion, if it's marketed properly, you can get your hands on some dollars...

Well both of us have been arguing on this kind of forum long enough, to know that getting huge money out of totally ridiculous claims is no news.... unfortunately. I have often pondered the question if I should try to do such a money-making scheme myself, but I guess I simply couldn't tell people bullshit while keeping a straight face and not burst into laughter...


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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#34  Postby jaydot » Mar 27, 2010 1:51 am

[off topic]
i made a sketch of a device i think might fulfill the criteria for perpetual motion, but there is one or two elements i can't get quite right. if i can find the sketch, i'll scan and post it for critique. if not, i'll try to remember it well enough to draw.
[/off topic]

with regard to cold fusion, were the scientists to release the specifications of the kit they use, so that we can set to replicating it in our workshops, we might be able to determine the worth of what they've been wailing about all these years.

open-sourced it can be solved tomorrow. it works, or it don't.

other scientists have seen that open-sourcing a project yields dividends. amateur cosmologists are invited to participate in sun-scanning to highlight artefacts for the scientists to study. by delegating some of the simply understood, they are saving themselves years of tedium doing the search themselves.

i'm currently working on a gadget to cheaply generate oxygen. if carbon-dioxide is such a big problem, why not offset it by adding more of other gases to the atmosphere? could plant masses of fruit and nut trees too. haven't got far with that, though i reckon my 'dying batteries' are producing something; bubbles come off each end.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#35  Postby Pyrion » Mar 29, 2010 1:05 pm

Why are so many people eager to make fun of those non-mainstream-scientists? Let them research, maybe something profound will be found. Maybe it's all just bogus, maybe it's not.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#36  Postby rJD » Mar 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Pyrion wrote:Why are so many people eager to make fun of those non-mainstream-scientists?

Probably something to do with the slack and dishonest (and unscientific) behaviour of Pons & Fleischmann since their announcement in 1986 that they'd "discovered" cold fusion, along with the vast amounts of money and publicity they've garnered for it, without any results whatsoever to show for all the hype and moolah.

Wiki article

Let them research, maybe something profound will be found. Maybe it's all just bogus, maybe it's not.

The research takes money - every dollar, pound and euro spent on cold fusion is money that could be spent elsewhere. It may be possible but until we have good evidence that it is, pouring money into it in the hope that it's not just a pipe dream seems a ridiculous diversion of resources.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#37  Postby Alan C » Mar 30, 2010 9:07 am

One thing that bugged me when I looked into this a while back was the large amount of funding 'hot' fusion got and the decades of work on it with results still being waited on. I used to check a site called PESWiki which had a bunch of open-source projects that I never got around to looking into.
Personally I'd love decent baseload clean decentralised power options but I guess I'll have to wait and see.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#38  Postby tnjrp » Mar 30, 2010 9:09 am

Alan C wrote:Personally I'd love decent baseload clean decentralised power options but I guess I'll have to wait and see.
+1

Alas, sometimes it's like in the old "if wishes were horses" etc.
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#39  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 30, 2010 8:47 pm

rJD wrote:
Pyrion wrote:Why are so many people eager to make fun of those non-mainstream-scientists?

Probably something to do with the slack and dishonest (and unscientific) behaviour of Pons & Fleischmann since their announcement in 1986 that they'd "discovered" cold fusion, along with the vast amounts of money and publicity they've garnered for it, without any results whatsoever to show for all the hype and moolah.

Wiki article

Let them research, maybe something profound will be found. Maybe it's all just bogus, maybe it's not.

The research takes money - every dollar, pound and euro spent on cold fusion is money that could be spent elsewhere. It may be possible but until we have good evidence that it is, pouring money into it in the hope that it's not just a pipe dream seems a ridiculous diversion of resources.


We have good evidence that something is going on there. We arent sure if it's actually fusion at all, or if it will be possible to produce energy from it, but I'd say the very fact that there's an unexplained phenomena here warrants further investigation. We'd probably understand what's going on by now if F&P hadnt jumped the gun and announced "LOL FREE ENERGY FOR EVERYONE!" Instead, since the initial promises turned out to be bullshit, no one wants to investigate it anymore.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#40  Postby JAJansenJr » Apr 17, 2010 8:50 am

One possible explanation for "cold fusion" generating heat is the reaction of hydrogen with oxygen to form water. This is exothermic and could explain the heat formation reported. This possibility is suggested by the following observation: in microbiology an oxygen free chamber for culturing anaerobic bacteria (bacteria which cannot grow in the presence of oxygen) is produced by flooding with nitrogen and then streaming hydrogen over a palladium catalyst to react the last bit of oxygen to form water. I haven't looked into reports of cold fusion closely but apparently work in this area is continuing in some places. To prove that a fusion reaction is actually taking place there must be evidence that a nuclear reaction has occurred. There are a variety of possible fusion reactions. In one simple case of hydrogen fusion, two protons have to be brought close enough for the weak force to convert either of the identical protons into a neutron forming deutrium (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion). An article on "cold fusion" appears at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
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